06-18-2005, 08:24 PM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pracs</i>
<br />Chinese, yes they are going to be the next super power and perhaps fight the rest of the western world for oil in the Gulf,. that must give them a right to be proud,.. but they were proud of themselves when the 1949 revolution came in,. this is just adding to your piece.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">And are you sure that 1949s revolution made everyone proud. I'd a english teacher (may Allah (swt) give her good life in this world and a good life hereafter). At the time of the revolution she was in China. She has met those people and she might be lying to us by she has told that most of the people were unhappy. So coming back to your point they didnt use to talk bad about their country/rulers becuase they feared that they would be killed not because they didnt want to. If you want to stop the people in that manner it sure would help. After all you want to hear is the praises.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pracs</i>
<br />Indians.. hmm well, my dear they do have some nice figures coming up.. and I see the way you see them. just proves the point how effective their propoganda is,.. that is exactly my point they stand behind each other rank and file and no matter will never be as pathetic as we become of our country. India is not just about Hindus,, Hindus ..the non shceduled type are just around 40% of the total population, the balance are scheduled castes, the untouchables, muslims, christians and sikhs.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">About 80% of the population is Hindu, and 14% is Muslim. Other significant religions include Christians, Sikhs, and Buddhists. There is no state religion. But at the time of partition of the subcontinent what was the basis making two peices of land. If I'm not wrong it was somewhat similar to division on the basis or religion. Majority decides what state would it become.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pracs</i>
<br />Those who are most disadvantaged are the scheduled castes and Muslims (don't mention Sharukh Khan or Amir khan, that does not count in any manner). You talk about Elite Pakistani children not knowing or being able to read the Quran,.. do you know that a majority of Muslims in India do not know how to read the Arabic script,. simply because post independence all schools systematically took urdu or Islamic studies off. The only MUSLIMS who can actually read are the one's in UP and Bihar,, simply because they get URDU as a subject.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Honestly speaking I see the Indian Muslim scholars having more impact world wide than the Pakistani Muslim scholars. Zakir Naik would be one name. His foundation would certainly have nothing parrallel to it in Pakistan. Secondly if the Muslims in India cant read the Arabic script I'm not amazed it is becuase of various reasons, to take your reason for the sake of the argument, they didnt have the Urdu and Islamic studies as a subject.
The things which hurts me is that in Pakistan we have all the facilities (if you count urdu and Islamiat as one of them we have that as well) still we have no significance inclination towards Islam. After all it was not India which as Majority of the Muslims it was 'Islamic Repulic of Pakistan'
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pracs</i>
<br /> They are bound to hold the most scholarships in the West due to the following reasons
-They have the potential of churning out the largest number of Graduates who can read English,<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Why isnt your country doing the same?
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pracs</i>
<br />-The have never been banned by any western country, say in nuclear physics, space science, etc.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I can still tell you student from GIK who left last year to do majors in nuclear physics. And dont forget this is not the only decipline which get scholarships.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pracs</i>
<br />-GMAT, GRE whatever, I bet if we were close to a billion people , we had higher scores number wise.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Brother please give some sensible reasons. Singapore has fewer people that the population of Pakistan. Yet on average they are ranked above us in the GMAT/GRE scores. Now dont write in your next post that if we had as fewer candidates as Singapore has we might have been able to achieve the same results.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pracs</i>
<br />-its easier to get into a Masters programme because their Bachelors program is 4 years compared to our 2 years.. so make nothing special on that.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I have tought by some of the professor who were part of admission body in various universities of US. Trust me it has nothing to do with 2 years and 4 years. And to be honest I'm taken aback by this reason of yours. I never expected and educated man like yours bring s'thing as lame as this.
Did you know that if you opt for a fast track program in the uni in India or for that matter in LUMS (Pakistan) you can finsih your degree in less than four years. And there are people who have done that and yet able to secure an admission in good universities abroad.
You see brother the cirteria is not the number of years you spend. Its the number of subject you take and the quality of the material tought and the way it is tought. Keep that in mind in futre.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pracs</i>
<br />You my friend are too impressed on the Indian education system, an Indain Chartered Accountant from a smaller city can barely speak English, would start on a salary of IRs 5,000 compared to an Indian CA from a Big 4 in one of the 4 metropols at a IRS. 40,000. How does that compare to CA's back home in Pakistan.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Money is not a good measurement tool. Atleast I dont take it as a measurement tool. I used to be a member of the community known as Yellow World. Majority of the members on this website were Asians. You might find it interesting that I met an American on this community who want to do his masters from some university in Ahmadabad. According to him they produced better graduates in Maths that the Harvard did. What is more interesting is the fact that he was admitted to MIT but couldnt secure and admission in that university in Ahmadabad. Atleast I was moved to read this in his thread.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pracs</i>
<br />As a matter of fact its not just India, students from South Asia score higher on GMAT, GRE and USMLE etc.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">As a matter of fact Pakistan does not enjoy the status of the high scorers. That is my concern, It doesnt acually matter which country scores how much as far as people of my nation are not able to leave a mark.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pracs</i>
<br />Yeah they had the good fortune of not having to have gone through any military rules, and the lame and dumb democracy they do have does stagger on, not forgetting the Kashmirs, Gujrats, Nagalands, Asams, Khalistans, and so forth.
With almost a population equal to that of China, and the highest number of graduates in the world, and industrial base that is 300 years old, they are barely doing half as well when compared to China.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I think you got the wrong Idea from my post. You seem to tell me all the wrongs of India. And honestly speaking it doesnt matter to me. You just raised the point that they dont talk ill of their land and I gave you many reason how they are better than us. If they are not better than lets say China or US or UK, I'm least bothered as it is not my concern. Had I been an Indian it would have been a differnt matter. A
But if you compare the India, Singapore, China, Korea with Pakistan you'd have to admitt that they were not far ahead of us in 47. It is also a fact that we have alot of resources and itellect. But we have not been able to utilize it properly and we lag behind from the countries mentioned above. Why? This is my concern. I seriously dont care if the how the Indians talk about India? How the Korean would talk about Korea? or for that matter and other person of any other nation. I'm simply concernt with the my own home. And my point is if there is s'thing wrong in my home and I close my eyes and start praising it just becuase it is happening in my home it wont do me any good. simple. You didnt need to tell me all those things about India. And I didnt want to get in that dispute.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pracs</i>
<br />The first Passenger Bus rolled out of the Leyland factories in Gujrat 150 years ago, and the 2005 Ashok Leyland is just not your Bedford... get my point, they must have done this well 25 years ago,.. they missed the bus by 25 years.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Brother again I'm happy to miss that bus because the Auto Industry in my own country has made a mafia and they are charging more than 200% mark-up. And this Industry has been over protected just becuase some people can get benifited and for thier own benifits they are hurting majority of the people and govt. has her hand in that. I think Pakistan has one of the worst policiies of the Auto Indiusty and yet they are protecting it. That is what matters to me. I'm not concerned iwth the Bus that I was not able to catch in Gujrat.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pracs</i>
<br />I am not impressed. I'll be impressed with India when her teeming millions do not work on a pathetic dog's pay in Dubai, Saudi, Oman or wherever.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">They dont need to impress you, neither do I need to defent them. And as said earlier Montery tolls are not a good measurement. Your people do earn more than them but you must be aware of the fact that your people do not enjoy the status which they do.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pracs</i>
<br />You are impressed by the genious of Indians, let me tell you, we are better than them in every field. Indians are the lowest paid workers in every country they go to ! Don't even get me started on that !<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">One -and for the third time- how much you earn is not a good way of measuring things. Two I'm not impressed with their with genious. Three my emphasis is that the genious of my country (who I belive are not less than anyone) should be groomed in a proper way. The education system should be such that they become inventor and leader not the followers. And read this interesting article as well http//www.dawn.com/weekly/cowas/20041226.htm
We could have done much better. But we didnt. that is the point and the only difference.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pracs</i>
<br />All those things you put forward about Pakistan are true, unfortunately that is also happening every where else,. In India, in the UK, in US. Pick up a paper here in the UK and that is all you will read.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> I remember a very intersting case study of Ritz. When in 70s they brought in the TQM Model of thier own. Their CEO said we are not the market leaders in quality becuase we are good its just becuase rest of the peopole in the industry are not worse than us. And he was the one who changed the concept of TQM.
So as earlier, I'm not concernt about what others do and how they do it. I'm concerned about what we should do.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pracs</i>
<br />That does not make it some thing not to be worried about.We should in all our effort stand up to it and call spade a spade, we need to be critical, we need to question, we need to change mind sets, we need to have more freedom, we need to educate people, we need to have justice, we need access to clean water, we need a lot of things.
That in itself does not give us the right to blacken our own face and ride the proverbial donkey, that will just draw village kids pelting you with stones and rotten eggs.
When two brothers fight in a house they don't go out in the street and spit on their own home !, they don't say they are ashamed to be a resident of that place. They put things together among themselves, they clean out the dirt ! not bring it in more.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I asume that country and home are not similar in the sense that whatever happens in your country is like an open book. The media has access to it. But what happens in your house is not an open book even your neighbour doesnt have access to it.
How can we clean our house if we are proud of the state in which it is, brother? My marrian webster gives me 7 meanings of the word pround. I'm sorry to say brother I cant fit a single meaning in here
<b> 1.</b> Feeling pleasurable satisfaction over an act, possession, quality, or relationship by which one measures one's stature or self-worth proud of one's child; proud to serve one's country.
<b>2. </b>Occasioning or being a reason for pride âOn January 1, 1900, Americans and Europeans greeted the twentieth century in the proud and certain belief that the next hundred years would make all things possibleâ (W. Bruce Lincoln).
<b>3.</b> Feeling or showing justifiable self-respect.
<b>4.</b> Filled with or showing excessive self-esteem.
<b>5.</b> Of great dignity; honored a proud name.
<b>6.</b> Majestic; magnificent proud alpine peaks.
<b>7.</b> Spirited. Used of an animal proud steeds.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pracs</i>
<br />We need to be Proud to be Pakistanis, that is what we need to do !
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I'm extreemly sorry brother but as I said earlier I cant be satisfied/proud of my country unless I fear that s'thing might happen to my sister or a bullet might ends my brother's life or the fact that a bomb may result in not seeing my parents again. Just becuase they happen to be at a perticular place at a perticular time and thier innocency lead to their death.
You may feel proud of that, but I've my own standards of being proud, once I achieve them I'd be.
<br />Chinese, yes they are going to be the next super power and perhaps fight the rest of the western world for oil in the Gulf,. that must give them a right to be proud,.. but they were proud of themselves when the 1949 revolution came in,. this is just adding to your piece.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">And are you sure that 1949s revolution made everyone proud. I'd a english teacher (may Allah (swt) give her good life in this world and a good life hereafter). At the time of the revolution she was in China. She has met those people and she might be lying to us by she has told that most of the people were unhappy. So coming back to your point they didnt use to talk bad about their country/rulers becuase they feared that they would be killed not because they didnt want to. If you want to stop the people in that manner it sure would help. After all you want to hear is the praises.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pracs</i>
<br />Indians.. hmm well, my dear they do have some nice figures coming up.. and I see the way you see them. just proves the point how effective their propoganda is,.. that is exactly my point they stand behind each other rank and file and no matter will never be as pathetic as we become of our country. India is not just about Hindus,, Hindus ..the non shceduled type are just around 40% of the total population, the balance are scheduled castes, the untouchables, muslims, christians and sikhs.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">About 80% of the population is Hindu, and 14% is Muslim. Other significant religions include Christians, Sikhs, and Buddhists. There is no state religion. But at the time of partition of the subcontinent what was the basis making two peices of land. If I'm not wrong it was somewhat similar to division on the basis or religion. Majority decides what state would it become.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pracs</i>
<br />Those who are most disadvantaged are the scheduled castes and Muslims (don't mention Sharukh Khan or Amir khan, that does not count in any manner). You talk about Elite Pakistani children not knowing or being able to read the Quran,.. do you know that a majority of Muslims in India do not know how to read the Arabic script,. simply because post independence all schools systematically took urdu or Islamic studies off. The only MUSLIMS who can actually read are the one's in UP and Bihar,, simply because they get URDU as a subject.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Honestly speaking I see the Indian Muslim scholars having more impact world wide than the Pakistani Muslim scholars. Zakir Naik would be one name. His foundation would certainly have nothing parrallel to it in Pakistan. Secondly if the Muslims in India cant read the Arabic script I'm not amazed it is becuase of various reasons, to take your reason for the sake of the argument, they didnt have the Urdu and Islamic studies as a subject.
The things which hurts me is that in Pakistan we have all the facilities (if you count urdu and Islamiat as one of them we have that as well) still we have no significance inclination towards Islam. After all it was not India which as Majority of the Muslims it was 'Islamic Repulic of Pakistan'
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pracs</i>
<br /> They are bound to hold the most scholarships in the West due to the following reasons
-They have the potential of churning out the largest number of Graduates who can read English,<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Why isnt your country doing the same?
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pracs</i>
<br />-The have never been banned by any western country, say in nuclear physics, space science, etc.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I can still tell you student from GIK who left last year to do majors in nuclear physics. And dont forget this is not the only decipline which get scholarships.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pracs</i>
<br />-GMAT, GRE whatever, I bet if we were close to a billion people , we had higher scores number wise.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Brother please give some sensible reasons. Singapore has fewer people that the population of Pakistan. Yet on average they are ranked above us in the GMAT/GRE scores. Now dont write in your next post that if we had as fewer candidates as Singapore has we might have been able to achieve the same results.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pracs</i>
<br />-its easier to get into a Masters programme because their Bachelors program is 4 years compared to our 2 years.. so make nothing special on that.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I have tought by some of the professor who were part of admission body in various universities of US. Trust me it has nothing to do with 2 years and 4 years. And to be honest I'm taken aback by this reason of yours. I never expected and educated man like yours bring s'thing as lame as this.
Did you know that if you opt for a fast track program in the uni in India or for that matter in LUMS (Pakistan) you can finsih your degree in less than four years. And there are people who have done that and yet able to secure an admission in good universities abroad.
You see brother the cirteria is not the number of years you spend. Its the number of subject you take and the quality of the material tought and the way it is tought. Keep that in mind in futre.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pracs</i>
<br />You my friend are too impressed on the Indian education system, an Indain Chartered Accountant from a smaller city can barely speak English, would start on a salary of IRs 5,000 compared to an Indian CA from a Big 4 in one of the 4 metropols at a IRS. 40,000. How does that compare to CA's back home in Pakistan.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Money is not a good measurement tool. Atleast I dont take it as a measurement tool. I used to be a member of the community known as Yellow World. Majority of the members on this website were Asians. You might find it interesting that I met an American on this community who want to do his masters from some university in Ahmadabad. According to him they produced better graduates in Maths that the Harvard did. What is more interesting is the fact that he was admitted to MIT but couldnt secure and admission in that university in Ahmadabad. Atleast I was moved to read this in his thread.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pracs</i>
<br />As a matter of fact its not just India, students from South Asia score higher on GMAT, GRE and USMLE etc.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">As a matter of fact Pakistan does not enjoy the status of the high scorers. That is my concern, It doesnt acually matter which country scores how much as far as people of my nation are not able to leave a mark.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pracs</i>
<br />Yeah they had the good fortune of not having to have gone through any military rules, and the lame and dumb democracy they do have does stagger on, not forgetting the Kashmirs, Gujrats, Nagalands, Asams, Khalistans, and so forth.
With almost a population equal to that of China, and the highest number of graduates in the world, and industrial base that is 300 years old, they are barely doing half as well when compared to China.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I think you got the wrong Idea from my post. You seem to tell me all the wrongs of India. And honestly speaking it doesnt matter to me. You just raised the point that they dont talk ill of their land and I gave you many reason how they are better than us. If they are not better than lets say China or US or UK, I'm least bothered as it is not my concern. Had I been an Indian it would have been a differnt matter. A
But if you compare the India, Singapore, China, Korea with Pakistan you'd have to admitt that they were not far ahead of us in 47. It is also a fact that we have alot of resources and itellect. But we have not been able to utilize it properly and we lag behind from the countries mentioned above. Why? This is my concern. I seriously dont care if the how the Indians talk about India? How the Korean would talk about Korea? or for that matter and other person of any other nation. I'm simply concernt with the my own home. And my point is if there is s'thing wrong in my home and I close my eyes and start praising it just becuase it is happening in my home it wont do me any good. simple. You didnt need to tell me all those things about India. And I didnt want to get in that dispute.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pracs</i>
<br />The first Passenger Bus rolled out of the Leyland factories in Gujrat 150 years ago, and the 2005 Ashok Leyland is just not your Bedford... get my point, they must have done this well 25 years ago,.. they missed the bus by 25 years.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Brother again I'm happy to miss that bus because the Auto Industry in my own country has made a mafia and they are charging more than 200% mark-up. And this Industry has been over protected just becuase some people can get benifited and for thier own benifits they are hurting majority of the people and govt. has her hand in that. I think Pakistan has one of the worst policiies of the Auto Indiusty and yet they are protecting it. That is what matters to me. I'm not concerned iwth the Bus that I was not able to catch in Gujrat.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pracs</i>
<br />I am not impressed. I'll be impressed with India when her teeming millions do not work on a pathetic dog's pay in Dubai, Saudi, Oman or wherever.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">They dont need to impress you, neither do I need to defent them. And as said earlier Montery tolls are not a good measurement. Your people do earn more than them but you must be aware of the fact that your people do not enjoy the status which they do.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pracs</i>
<br />You are impressed by the genious of Indians, let me tell you, we are better than them in every field. Indians are the lowest paid workers in every country they go to ! Don't even get me started on that !<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">One -and for the third time- how much you earn is not a good way of measuring things. Two I'm not impressed with their with genious. Three my emphasis is that the genious of my country (who I belive are not less than anyone) should be groomed in a proper way. The education system should be such that they become inventor and leader not the followers. And read this interesting article as well http//www.dawn.com/weekly/cowas/20041226.htm
We could have done much better. But we didnt. that is the point and the only difference.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pracs</i>
<br />All those things you put forward about Pakistan are true, unfortunately that is also happening every where else,. In India, in the UK, in US. Pick up a paper here in the UK and that is all you will read.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> I remember a very intersting case study of Ritz. When in 70s they brought in the TQM Model of thier own. Their CEO said we are not the market leaders in quality becuase we are good its just becuase rest of the peopole in the industry are not worse than us. And he was the one who changed the concept of TQM.
So as earlier, I'm not concernt about what others do and how they do it. I'm concerned about what we should do.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pracs</i>
<br />That does not make it some thing not to be worried about.We should in all our effort stand up to it and call spade a spade, we need to be critical, we need to question, we need to change mind sets, we need to have more freedom, we need to educate people, we need to have justice, we need access to clean water, we need a lot of things.
That in itself does not give us the right to blacken our own face and ride the proverbial donkey, that will just draw village kids pelting you with stones and rotten eggs.
When two brothers fight in a house they don't go out in the street and spit on their own home !, they don't say they are ashamed to be a resident of that place. They put things together among themselves, they clean out the dirt ! not bring it in more.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I asume that country and home are not similar in the sense that whatever happens in your country is like an open book. The media has access to it. But what happens in your house is not an open book even your neighbour doesnt have access to it.
How can we clean our house if we are proud of the state in which it is, brother? My marrian webster gives me 7 meanings of the word pround. I'm sorry to say brother I cant fit a single meaning in here
<b> 1.</b> Feeling pleasurable satisfaction over an act, possession, quality, or relationship by which one measures one's stature or self-worth proud of one's child; proud to serve one's country.
<b>2. </b>Occasioning or being a reason for pride âOn January 1, 1900, Americans and Europeans greeted the twentieth century in the proud and certain belief that the next hundred years would make all things possibleâ (W. Bruce Lincoln).
<b>3.</b> Feeling or showing justifiable self-respect.
<b>4.</b> Filled with or showing excessive self-esteem.
<b>5.</b> Of great dignity; honored a proud name.
<b>6.</b> Majestic; magnificent proud alpine peaks.
<b>7.</b> Spirited. Used of an animal proud steeds.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pracs</i>
<br />We need to be Proud to be Pakistanis, that is what we need to do !
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I'm extreemly sorry brother but as I said earlier I cant be satisfied/proud of my country unless I fear that s'thing might happen to my sister or a bullet might ends my brother's life or the fact that a bomb may result in not seeing my parents again. Just becuase they happen to be at a perticular place at a perticular time and thier innocency lead to their death.
You may feel proud of that, but I've my own standards of being proud, once I achieve them I'd be.