07-16-2007, 11:05 PM
[quote]<i>Originally posted by kamranACA</i>
<br />Mohtaram Kamran Sahib,
Yeh discussion tou bohat lambee ho gaiee hai. Seems like it will not reach any conclusion. But still i hope that we reach to a point where we both come up with a solution thats agreeable to both of us. Agar hum 2 bhi kissi aik nateejay par na pohanchay tou how can we expect from Ghazi brothers and Govt (and many more such cases) to agree on something similar. he na?
I am dead tired after spending few hectic hours in office but still want to comment on some of your points. (zahir hai mun kaisay band ho sakta hai mera [)])
<b>There is nothing to be taken on DIL. I appreciate ur above post which really reflected you to be somewhat agreeable to the facts.</b> Ok good that means now its your turn to agree with me on some of the points.
<b>I agree to u that in Pakistan so many laws are not being followed in true sence</b> ( So many nahin, there is no law at all.),
(<b>However, still it does not make it our responsibility to implement these laws by our own </b> (Then what should we do? Dont expect anything from Govt.)
<b>This way and also by means of legal assylum, so many of us are migrating every day without considering what would be the ultimate impact on our lives, our kids, whole next generation, our social responisbilities and upcoming moral obligations </b> (Agar humari qoum itna sochthi tou yeh haal hota aaj?).
<b>I was wrong on my words and being a realistic person I regret it</b>.(Good i like this.)
<b>He said, "Oh people of Pakistan we (he, I think used the words "muslims league") succeeded in creating a new country for you where you have gotten rid of britsih, hindus and mullahs". </b> I will be grateful to you if you can provide me with exact wordings of Mr. Jinah. Because personally i do not like discrimination. I donot have some speciall effection with Mullahs but i feel they are humans too and above all Muslims. Few mullahs ke liye sab ko ghalat kehna jahalat ho gi.
<b>The line between Mullahs and muslims is not drawn by me. It was drawn by the founders of Pakistan</b> ( I need to check on it. Thats why i need your help. Where did you read it?).
<b>Mullahs are of course included in muslims, but Pakistan was not supposed to be a place for them to get flourished and by all the hard luck they have flourished too much in this intended peaceful country </b> ( You seem to be extremely against Mullah's. Thats why you are seeing them all with one eye. That is a wrong attitude of life. I advice you, you better work on this. You are talking about them like they are god forbid Achoot. If you will talk in this way then what is the difference between you and an Extremist)
<b>You will agree that there is really a line between nobality and mullahism</b> ( Mullahism.... a new word to me. its so easy to create a sector). <b>Islam requires modesty, nobality, character, courage, forbearance and compliance with Sharia </b> ( yes islam ask you to be tolerant, patient , open minded and forgiving too.) It does not, however, require Mullahism. This is just to understand and if we dont try to understand we will never get to know the difference. <b>(Now i want to know from you How do you define a Mullah?)</b>
<b>I totally agree to u that this demand was not out of the world demand. However, Ghazi and his fellows have not been operated due to this demand only</b> (Pehli demand tou yehi thi na. Govt maan jaathi tou Operation kee nobat hi na aati). <b>They had never been talking to government peacefully</b> ( and how you are so sure?). They by force occupied the libray, by force kidnapped the so-called Aunti Shamim , police officers, chinese guys etc.
<b>If you live at USA you have to follow this hadees. It's not just the question of a specific country. Islam is Islam every where.</b> Yes islam is islam every where. i agree with you. But why dont you think in this way that it means that even if you are in a non-muslim country, you should practise what your religion require or expect from you. Like keep your body covered, say your prayers at right time. Fast during month of Ramadan and many more obligations towards our religion. It never says that just start fighting with a Christian or Hindu Or Jew in his own country that why he/she is wondering around in half clothes or eating infront of you in Ramadan. You dont have any right to do this. Yes you can attract them with your pracitses. with your actions. They should feel something special about you that this person is different. Its also a good deed and highly appereciatable one. A Small example from my personal life, as i told you i work in a foreign firm. You believe me or not, i am the only one Pakistani girl here, who comes in her National dress, Qameez Shalwar and Dopatta. I have many muslims girl around me, not from Pakistan though, but they all come in a dress that you can say is objectionable. A Romnian Christian girl, who usually comes in short skirts, and deep necks, came to office in long shirt and loose pants and i could see a scarf too around her neck. I was so astonished to see her in that dress. She said she loves my dress therefore she wanted to copy me. She added that it is so elegant and comfortable dress. Same once while going to prayer room, a Chirstian Indian lady asked me if she can see me while praying? I said sure why not. So the point is that stop the evil by hand is applied where it is war situation. You are confronted with a situation where you do not have any other option except to use your hands or weapons. You must have heard one more Hadees or Ayat ( i m sorry i am confused), the meaning goes like, If you see that the company where you are sitting are talking about something evil or bad, just leave that company, and walk away." yeh thouri ke maar pitaiee start kar do.
<b>At the end I can just hope for a better future for Pakistan as well as muslims and pray for the peaceful resolution of all the conflictice issues among the muslim Ummah. I personally condemn all the terrorism being done at Swat, D.I.Khan and other parts of Pakistan and wish to see all such ugly faces behind the bars.</b> (ok now you are talking sane and wise and indifferent too. Thats far better approach.
I feel that every individual of Pakistan should fulfill their duties and responsiblities. And as far as i can see the biggest responsibilities on one's shoulder is to educate your people. Make them aware of the true facts. Drwa a line between right and wrong. People around you, like your family, friends, colleagues etc. With your own actions try to bring a difference in their lives. Zor zabardasti se kuch bhi nahin hota except that you will waste your energy.
Regards
<br />Mohtaram Kamran Sahib,
Yeh discussion tou bohat lambee ho gaiee hai. Seems like it will not reach any conclusion. But still i hope that we reach to a point where we both come up with a solution thats agreeable to both of us. Agar hum 2 bhi kissi aik nateejay par na pohanchay tou how can we expect from Ghazi brothers and Govt (and many more such cases) to agree on something similar. he na?
I am dead tired after spending few hectic hours in office but still want to comment on some of your points. (zahir hai mun kaisay band ho sakta hai mera [)])
<b>There is nothing to be taken on DIL. I appreciate ur above post which really reflected you to be somewhat agreeable to the facts.</b> Ok good that means now its your turn to agree with me on some of the points.
<b>I agree to u that in Pakistan so many laws are not being followed in true sence</b> ( So many nahin, there is no law at all.),
(<b>However, still it does not make it our responsibility to implement these laws by our own </b> (Then what should we do? Dont expect anything from Govt.)
<b>This way and also by means of legal assylum, so many of us are migrating every day without considering what would be the ultimate impact on our lives, our kids, whole next generation, our social responisbilities and upcoming moral obligations </b> (Agar humari qoum itna sochthi tou yeh haal hota aaj?).
<b>I was wrong on my words and being a realistic person I regret it</b>.(Good i like this.)
<b>He said, "Oh people of Pakistan we (he, I think used the words "muslims league") succeeded in creating a new country for you where you have gotten rid of britsih, hindus and mullahs". </b> I will be grateful to you if you can provide me with exact wordings of Mr. Jinah. Because personally i do not like discrimination. I donot have some speciall effection with Mullahs but i feel they are humans too and above all Muslims. Few mullahs ke liye sab ko ghalat kehna jahalat ho gi.
<b>The line between Mullahs and muslims is not drawn by me. It was drawn by the founders of Pakistan</b> ( I need to check on it. Thats why i need your help. Where did you read it?).
<b>Mullahs are of course included in muslims, but Pakistan was not supposed to be a place for them to get flourished and by all the hard luck they have flourished too much in this intended peaceful country </b> ( You seem to be extremely against Mullah's. Thats why you are seeing them all with one eye. That is a wrong attitude of life. I advice you, you better work on this. You are talking about them like they are god forbid Achoot. If you will talk in this way then what is the difference between you and an Extremist)
<b>You will agree that there is really a line between nobality and mullahism</b> ( Mullahism.... a new word to me. its so easy to create a sector). <b>Islam requires modesty, nobality, character, courage, forbearance and compliance with Sharia </b> ( yes islam ask you to be tolerant, patient , open minded and forgiving too.) It does not, however, require Mullahism. This is just to understand and if we dont try to understand we will never get to know the difference. <b>(Now i want to know from you How do you define a Mullah?)</b>
<b>I totally agree to u that this demand was not out of the world demand. However, Ghazi and his fellows have not been operated due to this demand only</b> (Pehli demand tou yehi thi na. Govt maan jaathi tou Operation kee nobat hi na aati). <b>They had never been talking to government peacefully</b> ( and how you are so sure?). They by force occupied the libray, by force kidnapped the so-called Aunti Shamim , police officers, chinese guys etc.
<b>If you live at USA you have to follow this hadees. It's not just the question of a specific country. Islam is Islam every where.</b> Yes islam is islam every where. i agree with you. But why dont you think in this way that it means that even if you are in a non-muslim country, you should practise what your religion require or expect from you. Like keep your body covered, say your prayers at right time. Fast during month of Ramadan and many more obligations towards our religion. It never says that just start fighting with a Christian or Hindu Or Jew in his own country that why he/she is wondering around in half clothes or eating infront of you in Ramadan. You dont have any right to do this. Yes you can attract them with your pracitses. with your actions. They should feel something special about you that this person is different. Its also a good deed and highly appereciatable one. A Small example from my personal life, as i told you i work in a foreign firm. You believe me or not, i am the only one Pakistani girl here, who comes in her National dress, Qameez Shalwar and Dopatta. I have many muslims girl around me, not from Pakistan though, but they all come in a dress that you can say is objectionable. A Romnian Christian girl, who usually comes in short skirts, and deep necks, came to office in long shirt and loose pants and i could see a scarf too around her neck. I was so astonished to see her in that dress. She said she loves my dress therefore she wanted to copy me. She added that it is so elegant and comfortable dress. Same once while going to prayer room, a Chirstian Indian lady asked me if she can see me while praying? I said sure why not. So the point is that stop the evil by hand is applied where it is war situation. You are confronted with a situation where you do not have any other option except to use your hands or weapons. You must have heard one more Hadees or Ayat ( i m sorry i am confused), the meaning goes like, If you see that the company where you are sitting are talking about something evil or bad, just leave that company, and walk away." yeh thouri ke maar pitaiee start kar do.
<b>At the end I can just hope for a better future for Pakistan as well as muslims and pray for the peaceful resolution of all the conflictice issues among the muslim Ummah. I personally condemn all the terrorism being done at Swat, D.I.Khan and other parts of Pakistan and wish to see all such ugly faces behind the bars.</b> (ok now you are talking sane and wise and indifferent too. Thats far better approach.
I feel that every individual of Pakistan should fulfill their duties and responsiblities. And as far as i can see the biggest responsibilities on one's shoulder is to educate your people. Make them aware of the true facts. Drwa a line between right and wrong. People around you, like your family, friends, colleagues etc. With your own actions try to bring a difference in their lives. Zor zabardasti se kuch bhi nahin hota except that you will waste your energy.
Regards