10-05-2007, 06:16 PM
Dears,
)
I am here Shoaib. Actually I was out of city to see some personal issues.
First of all to clarify my view point once again. Yes, I am still standing on my fottings without changing my mind to follow the "child-like" complaints and grouses.
Now person-wise replies
Dear Shoaib,
As you have declared that nothing remains to be discussed with you or to dig out further, therefore, there should be nothing to post as reply to your first message after my last post.
Dear Noman,
As a matter of principle I dont argue against the best practices as have been mentioned by you. But dear student, you know there had been a scinetific theory that if we invent IDEAL MACHINE, there will be no end to life. So, idelaism is likely to be pursued but it does not have to be achieved entirely. Not even in the world you are mentioning about. DOOR KAY DHOLE SUHAANEY. You just contact those who left Pakistan for such dreams to UK etc and have faced the real bitter taste of life. It's the human's nature to feel unsatisfied every where. Yes, (as said by Shoaib) I am not the alone who is famous for late sittings. But matter arises from its acceptance and non-acceptance. I had been a studnet of the environment stated by you both, have gone through all these phases, and still have not a single grouse with the firm. WHY? BECOZ ULTIMATELY IT WAS MY CHOICE TO JOIN THIS PROFESSION AND THE FIRM I LIKED. No one rang a bell to my door requesting me to join CA for God's sake.
And yes, it is what for which CA is known for. There is no doubt about it. Whatever you say, appears to be an ideal situation and principally speaking I dont disagree with it, but I at the same time firmly know and believe that it has not to happen here at leas in Pakistan at least in next 50 years. So, what has not to happen, we should not waste our time for it. This is not a hopeless expression. Rather, this is what could be called as a ground relaity that never have to change at least during above stated period. You must appreciate that there was a time when CA was deemed to be the most difficult task. No information, education material and calsses were available. Even then the people who did CA passed through those difficult stages. Now information is openly available, education material is not a problem, bilateral developments of various institutes and bodies are enormous, classes are available, solved papers are available. A lot has been improved. Why we dont appreciate it. This is what has to keep on improving. But, late sittings, hard working, management pressures and tight schedules will never leave CA profession. At leats for next 50 years. It's my best prediction. So dont waste your time and keep concentrated on what your aim is.
As far as better oppurtunity of education and better allocation plans are concerned, I CAP has issued regulations for training of students which will expectedly bring the results. I said so much development has been made for studnets to provide them all the materials, guidance and classes etc.
But as far as lenient HR is concerned it is really a difficult task for the firms, in my view. People normally take undue advantages of any leniency. It happens. If firms are not the angels do u think the kids having no understanding of the situation would be angels as far as professional behaviour is concerned?
If a student comes to me and says that he is going to join classes in morning and will in routine be available to the firm after 1230 am. I would never be lenient enough to ask him to join such classes and leave the work at all. This will never get leniency. There are also number of other examples.
I once told here that a student asked us to give him leave of almost 12 days after his exams (while he was already given exam leave) to sort out his so called "much more important personal engagement" (as in above post mentione dby shoaib as well). My senior partner turned down his request and asked him to join soon after exam. I BEING VERY LENIENT ADVISED HIM TO TAKE ONE WEEK FURTHER LEAVE AFTER EXAM ON MY PERSONAL APPROVAL AND SORT OUT THIS IMPORTANT ENGAGEMENT IN THAT WEEK as I was not going to allow him 12 days leave.
What happened due to this leniency? He without informing the firm left Pakistan for UAE and joined a job. He was basically asking for leave to go there and to check whether the job is feasible for him or not. I was astonished when after the conclusion of a week he e-mailed me a further application for 30 days further leaves declaring that he is caught up with some severe situation at Quetta. I investigated the issue by having a meeting with his Father who gentleman told me that my studnet was at UAE instead of Quetta.
My God!!! This was the result of leniency. I very difficultly managed to get through the situation.
Therefore, my brother, the sort of leniencies you are looking for, will never be available to you or any one else during articles. Time has to prove it.
Dear Pracs,
Like ever, it is a pleasure to see you at the forum. Keep on visiting. I dont comment on the words posted by you becoz in principle I dont disagree with them.
Dear Astute,
I know you cannot disagree with my school of thought. Aakhir Bhaai jo huey.
Dear Shoaib,
I think nothing is to be answered to u except telling that I am here, dont much wonder.
Dears,
As a test case, take the example of two firms as per your own standard, one very leninet one and the other very harsh one. Then analyse the capabilities of its students, post artciles!!! You will get the results.
Regards,
Kamran.
)
I am here Shoaib. Actually I was out of city to see some personal issues.
First of all to clarify my view point once again. Yes, I am still standing on my fottings without changing my mind to follow the "child-like" complaints and grouses.
Now person-wise replies
Dear Shoaib,
As you have declared that nothing remains to be discussed with you or to dig out further, therefore, there should be nothing to post as reply to your first message after my last post.
Dear Noman,
As a matter of principle I dont argue against the best practices as have been mentioned by you. But dear student, you know there had been a scinetific theory that if we invent IDEAL MACHINE, there will be no end to life. So, idelaism is likely to be pursued but it does not have to be achieved entirely. Not even in the world you are mentioning about. DOOR KAY DHOLE SUHAANEY. You just contact those who left Pakistan for such dreams to UK etc and have faced the real bitter taste of life. It's the human's nature to feel unsatisfied every where. Yes, (as said by Shoaib) I am not the alone who is famous for late sittings. But matter arises from its acceptance and non-acceptance. I had been a studnet of the environment stated by you both, have gone through all these phases, and still have not a single grouse with the firm. WHY? BECOZ ULTIMATELY IT WAS MY CHOICE TO JOIN THIS PROFESSION AND THE FIRM I LIKED. No one rang a bell to my door requesting me to join CA for God's sake.
And yes, it is what for which CA is known for. There is no doubt about it. Whatever you say, appears to be an ideal situation and principally speaking I dont disagree with it, but I at the same time firmly know and believe that it has not to happen here at leas in Pakistan at least in next 50 years. So, what has not to happen, we should not waste our time for it. This is not a hopeless expression. Rather, this is what could be called as a ground relaity that never have to change at least during above stated period. You must appreciate that there was a time when CA was deemed to be the most difficult task. No information, education material and calsses were available. Even then the people who did CA passed through those difficult stages. Now information is openly available, education material is not a problem, bilateral developments of various institutes and bodies are enormous, classes are available, solved papers are available. A lot has been improved. Why we dont appreciate it. This is what has to keep on improving. But, late sittings, hard working, management pressures and tight schedules will never leave CA profession. At leats for next 50 years. It's my best prediction. So dont waste your time and keep concentrated on what your aim is.
As far as better oppurtunity of education and better allocation plans are concerned, I CAP has issued regulations for training of students which will expectedly bring the results. I said so much development has been made for studnets to provide them all the materials, guidance and classes etc.
But as far as lenient HR is concerned it is really a difficult task for the firms, in my view. People normally take undue advantages of any leniency. It happens. If firms are not the angels do u think the kids having no understanding of the situation would be angels as far as professional behaviour is concerned?
If a student comes to me and says that he is going to join classes in morning and will in routine be available to the firm after 1230 am. I would never be lenient enough to ask him to join such classes and leave the work at all. This will never get leniency. There are also number of other examples.
I once told here that a student asked us to give him leave of almost 12 days after his exams (while he was already given exam leave) to sort out his so called "much more important personal engagement" (as in above post mentione dby shoaib as well). My senior partner turned down his request and asked him to join soon after exam. I BEING VERY LENIENT ADVISED HIM TO TAKE ONE WEEK FURTHER LEAVE AFTER EXAM ON MY PERSONAL APPROVAL AND SORT OUT THIS IMPORTANT ENGAGEMENT IN THAT WEEK as I was not going to allow him 12 days leave.
What happened due to this leniency? He without informing the firm left Pakistan for UAE and joined a job. He was basically asking for leave to go there and to check whether the job is feasible for him or not. I was astonished when after the conclusion of a week he e-mailed me a further application for 30 days further leaves declaring that he is caught up with some severe situation at Quetta. I investigated the issue by having a meeting with his Father who gentleman told me that my studnet was at UAE instead of Quetta.
My God!!! This was the result of leniency. I very difficultly managed to get through the situation.
Therefore, my brother, the sort of leniencies you are looking for, will never be available to you or any one else during articles. Time has to prove it.
Dear Pracs,
Like ever, it is a pleasure to see you at the forum. Keep on visiting. I dont comment on the words posted by you becoz in principle I dont disagree with them.
Dear Astute,
I know you cannot disagree with my school of thought. Aakhir Bhaai jo huey.
Dear Shoaib,
I think nothing is to be answered to u except telling that I am here, dont much wonder.
Dears,
As a test case, take the example of two firms as per your own standard, one very leninet one and the other very harsh one. Then analyse the capabilities of its students, post artciles!!! You will get the results.
Regards,
Kamran.