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ICAP humiliating itself
01-15-2009, 12:03 AM,
 
Dears,

Whatever is going on here, atleast, its proving to be good sort of amusement for me.
Some people claim and try to be good at pointing out contradictions in others' conceptions and statements. Additionally, blunders are to be pin pointed. Well, we will see what they come up with when they get spare time. Still others uttering thorough gibberish stuff and surprisingly are completely unaware of it.

Mr. Khalid names the thread as "ICAP HUMILIATING ITSELF" and in his first post he wrote.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mroneflower</i>
<br />
What message ICAP has given to its members and world by signing this MOU that ICAP and its members are not capable of competing with ICAEW even in Pakistan, Its SHAME.

ICAP did the same thing in ACCA case. When ACCA was first introduced in 1995 in Pakistan. ICAP gave exemption of 13 papers out of 16 papers to ACCA Affiliate (please note that I used word ACCA Affiliate and not ACCA members secondly ICAP had total of 16 papers in 1995). When ICAP saw that ACCA is capturing Pakistani Market ICAP reduced exemption to ACCA Affiliate.

So what its mean ICAP just makes policies without collecting any information. When ICAP council has this standard then we can imagine what will be standard of ICAP members. By making such stupid policies in rush ICAP is giving message to world that ICAP members (Please bear in mind ICAP council consists of ICAP members) do not have quality and if someone employs ICAP members then ICAP members will take important decisions in the same way as ICAP council does i.e without collecting relevant information and without forecasting future impact of decisions.

ACCA and ICAEW

ACCA members are allowed to conduct Audit of plc, Investment business, Insolvency work and tax consultancy in 80 countries of the world including Whole of Europrean Union, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Singapore and many many countries of the world.

Furthermore ACCA Affiliate (again not ACCA members) are required to pass ICAEW 3 papers (not 4 as the case with ICAP members) with three years of training (work experience). It means ACCA Affiliate can use 3 years experience to gain membership of two bodies i.e ACCA and ICAEW.

On the other hand students need 3 to 5 yrs experience to become ICAP member and then further 2 yrs experience to become ICAEW member. Means ICAP people need total of 5 to 7 yrs experience to become ICAEW member where in ACCA case the required experience is three yrs.

Moreover ACCA members with 5 yrs experience can apply for ICAEW membership through CCAB route without giving and passing any exams.

NOTE I do not recommend any of ACCA Affiliate to go for ICAEW as it is waste of time and money. Moreover ICAEW will not add anything to your CV.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Then suddenly he takes a you turn and comes up with
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mroneflower</i>
<br />
I am saying it again I am not interested in proving ACCA is better than ICAP, If ICAP thinks its better than please keep on thinking.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Surely he mentioned second time here that he is not proving ACCA better or comparing it with ICAP. However, I do not think anybody other than him can find anything other than the comparison in his posts. It does not require any efforts to establish the contradictions shown by him. However, KOI NAI HO JATA HE KABHI KABHI.

But the absurdities do not stop here. In a very recent post we found him bashing ICAP members once again as
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mroneflower</i>
<br />
Another interesting think about ICAP. ICAP claims that it is ruling accountancy profession is Pakistan means in accounatncy college ICAP is also ruling. I request all reader to click on link below

http//www.skans.edu.pk/acca/08.php

In this page it in claimed that

1) <b>A qualified ACCA (UK Stream) needs to appear for 3 papers of Institute of Chartered Accountants of England & Wales (ICAEW) only, remaining papers being fully exempt.</b>

2) <b>A qualified ACCA (International Stream) needs to appear for 5 papers of Institute of Chartered Accountants of England & Wales (ICAEW) only, remaining papers being fully exempt</b>

Firstly ICAEW only conducts its examination in International stream and second it does not matter if one has passed ACCA under UK or International stream. All ACCA Affliciates (not member) need to give only three ICAEW papers.

What kind of teaching, coaching, training and inforamtion ICAP people are providing to students in Pakistan. Now I may say ICAP people are liars as well.

What ICAP people are doing. At lesat try to be honest with your own people and students. These ACCA students are Pakistani as well. I do not know why ICAP people are misleading their own people, in this way you are not helping Pakistan and you talk about patriotism. Seriously I am hurt not becasue of negative propaganda against ACCA but because you people are playing with students careers.PLEASE STOP DOING THIS.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Now the link provided is of SKANS and ICAP is once again being blamed for things it has nothing to do with at all. SKANS is one of the most recognized ACCA institute in Lahore and majority of management of SKANS ACCA section are qualified ACCAs. Now read again the above quoted Khalid's lines by replacing ACCA with ICAP, at least it would be more honest presentation of the picture.

Khalid think yourself yaar after making such comments what weight age any of the rational readers can give to your ideas.

Yet again focus at the source of his information he is referring to in his following post and the severity of conclusions he has drawn. Making strong beliefs on the basis of unreliable and absurd information, that’s what ACCAs are all about!!!
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mroneflower</i>
<br />
ICAP people are still doing this. I know a person who has been in UK for 2 weeks and came here to study ACCA. This person told me that ACCA is certified accountant and is not Chartered body. When I asked him who told him so, he answered ICAP people. I think ICAP people do not know what ACCA stands for, ACCA standard for Association of Chartered Certified Accountant, so Chartered is part of ACCA name. Moreover Privy Council has allowed ACCA members to refer themselves as Chartered Accountant. It means if ACCA member calls himself Chartered Accountant in UK no one can sue him, remember title Chartered Accountant is protected in UK law. Outside UK ICAEW members will call themselves Chartered Accountant(Eng & Wales) where ACCA members can call themselves Chartered Accountant (UK). Despite this permission from privy council ACCA recommend its member to call themselves Chartered Certified Accountant to distinguish themselves from other bodies. I think I should explain to ICAP members history of word CHARTERED, as it seems they do not know origin of this word.

I also heard ICAP people saying ACCA is just an Association and not a major Chartered body. Word Association is protected by Law is UK and only those organisation can use it who have permission. Secondly by using word major Chartered body, one could think there must be non-major chartered bodies. I do not know difference between major and non-major chartered bodies, if anyone knows please do tell me. Actually the term non-major Chartered body does not exist anywhere in the world, this term is developed by ICAP members
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Now look at the source I heard, WOW, and by the way term used ICAP people in the above post needs to be elaborated.

Ms. Rabia you seem to be unaware of the difference between ACCA qualified from UK and ACCA qualified from Pakistan. In my opinion this difference in not created by ACCA management neither it’s due to the difference in their abilities and competence. However, the fact remains an ACCA affiliate from Pakistan finds it very difficult to get related recruitment in UK, however, its simpler for the one who is qualified in UK, and still easier for the one who is UK national (I am not including DESIes) also. I hope we should be mature enough to apprehend why the difference is due to. I personally know two of such people who moved to UK after qualifying ACCA. However, even after much of struggle they were not able to get recruitment in any accountancy firm. One of them ended in McDonalds serving the customers and another opted for MBA from some UK institute.

I think the difference in position of ICAP CAs and ACCAs in Pakistani market was aptly described in my first and no one seemed to have attempted to deny that, and if somebody does he or she may get it surveyed personally.

So it can be established from this that those who do not want to move abroad ACCA should not be the ultimate option, as I have said earlier and am repeating it now, its never the bad option to start with.

I never mean to degrade ACCAs as I believe it be a qualification which worth it, however, to be very honest any attempt to compare it with ICAP CAs in Pakistan is Pakistan is absolutely childish.








Reply
01-15-2009, 12:09 AM,
 
Dears,

Whatever is going on here, atleast, its proving to be good sort of amusement for me.
Some people claim and try to be good at pointing out contradictions in others' conceptions and statements. Additionally, blunders are to be pin pointed. Well, we will see what they come up with when they get spare time. Still others uttering thorough gibberish stuff and surprisingly are completely unaware of it.

Mr. Khalid names the thread as "ICAP HUMILIATING ITSELF" and in his first post he wrote.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mroneflower</i>
<br />
What message ICAP has given to its members and world by signing this MOU that ICAP and its members are not capable of competing with ICAEW even in Pakistan, Its SHAME.

ICAP did the same thing in ACCA case. When ACCA was first introduced in 1995 in Pakistan. ICAP gave exemption of 13 papers out of 16 papers to ACCA Affiliate (please note that I used word ACCA Affiliate and not ACCA members secondly ICAP had total of 16 papers in 1995). When ICAP saw that ACCA is capturing Pakistani Market ICAP reduced exemption to ACCA Affiliate.

So what its mean ICAP just makes policies without collecting any information. When ICAP council has this standard then we can imagine what will be standard of ICAP members. By making such stupid policies in rush ICAP is giving message to world that ICAP members (Please bear in mind ICAP council consists of ICAP members) do not have quality and if someone employs ICAP members then ICAP members will take important decisions in the same way as ICAP council does i.e without collecting relevant information and without forecasting future impact of decisions.

ACCA and ICAEW

ACCA members are allowed to conduct Audit of plc, Investment business, Insolvency work and tax consultancy in 80 countries of the world including Whole of Europrean Union, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Singapore and many many countries of the world.

Furthermore ACCA Affiliate (again not ACCA members) are required to pass ICAEW 3 papers (not 4 as the case with ICAP members) with three years of training (work experience). It means ACCA Affiliate can use 3 years experience to gain membership of two bodies i.e ACCA and ICAEW.

On the other hand students need 3 to 5 yrs experience to become ICAP member and then further 2 yrs experience to become ICAEW member. Means ICAP people need total of 5 to 7 yrs experience to become ICAEW member where in ACCA case the required experience is three yrs.

Moreover ACCA members with 5 yrs experience can apply for ICAEW membership through CCAB route without giving and passing any exams.

NOTE I do not recommend any of ACCA Affiliate to go for ICAEW as it is waste of time and money. Moreover ICAEW will not add anything to your CV.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Then suddenly he takes a you turn and comes up with
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mroneflower</i>
<br />
I am saying it again I am not interested in proving ACCA is better than ICAP, If ICAP thinks its better than please keep on thinking.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Surely he mentioned second time here that he is not proving ACCA better or comparing it with ICAP. However, I do not think anybody other than him can find anything other than the comparison in his posts. It does not require any efforts to establish the contradictions shown by him. However, KOI NAI HO JATA HE KABHI KABHI.

But the absurdities do not stop here. In a very recent post we found him bashing ICAP members once again as
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mroneflower</i>
<br />
Another interesting think about ICAP. ICAP claims that it is ruling accountancy profession is Pakistan means in accounatncy college ICAP is also ruling. I request all reader to click on link below

http//www.skans.edu.pk/acca/08.php

In this page it in claimed that

1) <b>A qualified ACCA (UK Stream) needs to appear for 3 papers of Institute of Chartered Accountants of England & Wales (ICAEW) only, remaining papers being fully exempt.</b>

2) <b>A qualified ACCA (International Stream) needs to appear for 5 papers of Institute of Chartered Accountants of England & Wales (ICAEW) only, remaining papers being fully exempt</b>

Firstly ICAEW only conducts its examination in International stream and second it does not matter if one has passed ACCA under UK or International stream. All ACCA Affliciates (not member) need to give only three ICAEW papers.

What kind of teaching, coaching, training and inforamtion ICAP people are providing to students in Pakistan. Now I may say ICAP people are liars as well.

What ICAP people are doing. At lesat try to be honest with your own people and students. These ACCA students are Pakistani as well. I do not know why ICAP people are misleading their own people, in this way you are not helping Pakistan and you talk about patriotism. Seriously I am hurt not becasue of negative propaganda against ACCA but because you people are playing with students careers.PLEASE STOP DOING THIS.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Now the link provided is of SKANS and ICAP is once again being blamed for things it has nothing to do with at all. SKANS is one of the most recognized ACCA institute in Lahore and majority of management of SKANS ACCA section are qualified ACCAs. Now read again the above quoted Khalid's lines by replacing ACCA with ICAP, at least it would be more honest presentation of the picture.

Khalid think yourself yaar after making such comments what weight age any of the rational readers can give to your ideas.

Yet again focus at the source of his information he is referring to in his following post and the severity of conclusions he has drawn. Making strong beliefs on the basis of unreliable and absurd information, that’s what ACCAs are all about!!!
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mroneflower</i>
<br />
ICAP people are still doing this. I know a person who has been in UK for 2 weeks and came here to study ACCA. This person told me that ACCA is certified accountant and is not Chartered body. When I asked him who told him so, he answered ICAP people. I think ICAP people do not know what ACCA stands for, ACCA standard for Association of Chartered Certified Accountant, so Chartered is part of ACCA name. Moreover Privy Council has allowed ACCA members to refer themselves as Chartered Accountant. It means if ACCA member calls himself Chartered Accountant in UK no one can sue him, remember title Chartered Accountant is protected in UK law. Outside UK ICAEW members will call themselves Chartered Accountant(Eng & Wales) where ACCA members can call themselves Chartered Accountant (UK). Despite this permission from privy council ACCA recommend its member to call themselves Chartered Certified Accountant to distinguish themselves from other bodies. I think I should explain to ICAP members history of word CHARTERED, as it seems they do not know origin of this word.

I also heard ICAP people saying ACCA is just an Association and not a major Chartered body. Word Association is protected by Law is UK and only those organisation can use it who have permission. Secondly by using word major Chartered body, one could think there must be non-major chartered bodies. I do not know difference between major and non-major chartered bodies, if anyone knows please do tell me. Actually the term non-major Chartered body does not exist anywhere in the world, this term is developed by ICAP members
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Now look at the source I heard, WOW, and by the way term used ICAP people in the above post needs to be elaborated.

Ms. Rabia you seem to be unaware of the difference between ACCA qualified from UK and ACCA qualified from Pakistan. In my opinion this difference in not created by ACCA management neither it’s due to the difference in their abilities and competence. However, the fact remains an ACCA affiliate from Pakistan finds it very difficult to get related recruitment in UK, however, its simpler for the one who is qualified in UK, and still easier for the one who is UK national (I am not including DESIes) also. I hope we should be mature enough to apprehend why the difference is due to. I personally know two of such people who moved to UK after qualifying ACCA. However, even after much of struggle they were not able to get recruitment in any accountancy firm. One of them ended in McDonalds serving the customers and another opted for MBA from some UK institute.

I think the difference in position of ICAP CAs and ACCAs in Pakistani market was aptly described in my first and no one seemed to have attempted to deny that, and if somebody does he or she may get it surveyed personally.

So it can be established from this that those who do not want to move abroad ACCA should not be the ultimate option, as I have said earlier and am repeating it now, its never the bad option to start with.

I never mean to degrade ACCAs as I believe it be a qualification which worth it, however, to be very honest any attempt to compare it with ICAP CAs in Pakistan is Pakistan is absolutely childish.

Options available for those who seek career abroad, along with the health of the said memorandum and the comparison between different chartered accountancy bodies I will come up later with.

Regards









Reply
01-15-2009, 01:22 AM,
 
ok so mr shoaib, because one of your friend ended up serving mcdonalds doesnt apply to the majority. he might
be facing financial problems , or probably his visa was about to expire..or maybe some other problems. U havent specified whether he was an ACCA AFFILIATE or ACCA MEMBER or was he only partly qualified??
ACCA'S are not just limited to accountancy firms, i wonder if he tried in industry.
Reply
01-15-2009, 05:34 AM,
 
I dont know what Pakistani ACCAs want to prove here. ICAP members are really very incompetent as compared to other international bodies and I am surprised that one such incompetent has been appointed at IFAC board.
LOLs

I really wasted a lot a my time in reading such a baseless discussion.
Mr Kamran has been a regular poster here but i am surprised that he has enough time to waste here.

In short I just want to say that one is never satisfied with what he has achieved.
ACCAs satisfy themselves fantasying thenselves to be the best so as ACAs.

This is a Pakistani forum mostly for Pakistani Students and discussion here should help those who visit this forum.
I often visit forums at this site (though rarely bothered to post here) and I find some people really sharing Useful information here

As far as the main topic is concerned I really feel this MoU as a set back from ICAP but i agree with the logics raised by Mr Kamran. And atleast we should bear in mind that we are not very far behind in this Accountancy and finance field from First world as compared to other fields of study . I dont mean here competency of doctors or engineers etc here rather i mean Qualiy
of education in other fields as compared to First world.


I request you all to make some fruitful contribution to this forum

And the bi-topic of ACCA vs CA I would only say both are good qualifications but I have to agree that if you want to live in pakistan then ACA is Best as compared to ACCA. But one must not forget the truth that ICAP ACA is a Third World (not a third class)Qualification as opposed to ACCA.

But ICAP really have some reasonably good global acceptance. I have seen a lot debate which one is difficult. For some easiest things might be difficult while for others toughest things may be easiest.

I feel proud about ICAP that atleast it has gained more respect than any other Pakistani educational body at International scene. And people here should remember that they should be proud for what ICAP has achieved rather I have seen most of people here who tries to spittt in air by just thinking that we pakistanis are loosers.

Regards
Sadaf
Reply
01-15-2009, 06:01 AM,
 
Hello Schuaib, So I see you have finally joined in. I must say it is rather amusing along with a little sad. My two cents, I see the pro ACCA group (Khalid and Rabia) reflect a lack of experience and lack of perhaps first hand knowledge of the Pakistani market. When comparing professional qualifications such as accountancy a number of things need to be considered, (as is done with University rankings) so along with content (and the decimation of knowledge) comes reputation (could be a function of history) employers' preference (again a function of alumni) and legal cover (right to audit and provide other services. Keeping this in mind my independent and un biased opinion (being a member of both institutes) is henceforth

<b>Pakistani market</b> ICAP is supreme and is a favourite of employers (why because they are hiring their alumni, presently senior finance are CAs). The fact that becoming an ACA is one of the toughest (and I am not exaggerating here) ordeal one has to go through in his career. This does not mean just the studies and exams (its not rocket science) but to be able to come up with first time passes along with articles, that is what makes it so perfect (time management, professional expertise, people management etc.) If ICAP at some point (although I do not see that happening) allows trainees to article in the industry, employers will clearly prefer people trained in 'practice'.

Of course it goes without saying that ACCA has made quite a leap of faith in the short time that it has been in the Pakistani market. (I remember passing my ACCA and the no. of affiliates barely filled a room, people passing an attempt or two before were literally -the first Pakistan ACCAs.) Compare this with the progress ACMA has done and there is quite a lot of difference.

<b>Gulf Market</b>When I got my first job in a Gulf country, it was based on ACCA, I was yet to be admitted to ICAP (time qualify) and my employer a very senior Partner with a big 4 firm said he didn't care for any other qualification as long as I was an ACCA. Why? given the fact that ACCA, ACA (from any where), CPA all have the same 'legal' rights. What was important on top of a qualification was Big4 accountancy experience. Of course a little premium on remuneration. This is over simplification, I must say.

<b>UK Market</b>Worked for a Big4 accountancy firm, and get this; the firm hired at better position candidates with Big4 experience (non UK experience) holding 'premium accountancy qualification from their country of origin'. Their point of view was that in their experience 'the best talent' (this is an ambiguous term) went on for premium qualifications in their individual countries (commonwealth countries). Of course that did not mean ACCAs (with big 4 non UK experience) were not hired in similar positions. A distinction was made when employing UK qualified ACCAs (mostly qualified with smaller firms with little or no financial services experience-my area of work). However, once you got on every one was at par in terms of opportunities for progress etc. Now, what does that tell you ? You see a UK qualified ACCA would usually not have a graduate degree, which strangely enough is quite important in this part of the world. Whereas a Pakistani ACA, would usually have a Bachelors degree, plus if you've had transferable and comparable skills you are in demand. Having said that legally there is no difference between an ACCA or ACA given the legal backing. And yes in UK I can only call myself a 'Chartered Accountant' because I am an ACCA and not because I am a Pakistani ACA.

What I must tell you here that the Big4 in UK, when offering training contracts are very choosy - top 10 Unis and even if you have a first class degree there is no guarantee, they'll hire you only if they think you have the aptitude, being part of Graduate recruit I have seen people with top A Levels (As and A+s) and degrees from the likes of LSE and Oxford being refused because they did not have the aptitude for working in an accountancy firm (they could be very good researchers but not good with people skills)

<b>ICAEW </b>No one should be surprised why ICAEW has the kind of 'feel good' or 'distinctive' recognition in Pakistan, not ICAA or ICAI (Ireland) or ICAS (the oldest accountancy institute in the world) or CPA (even though it's American !). The reason, well ICAP was founded by ICAEW members of Pakistani origin. Until recently 90% of Partners of the top 10 CA firms in Pakistan were originally ICAEW members, it is only natural for these very senior accountants to covet ICAEW it is after all what made them (and ICAP).

My post here is not examining the policies, commercial sensitivities or exams of any of these institutes. I have merely looked at the 'operational' and 'market' sensitivities of these qualifications.

My advise for students and prospective members is, (some may lash out on me) if you are in Pakistan (irrespective of whether you plan to work overseas) is go for ICAP CA, if you have the time and money (it costs more in terms of opportunity cost- the 6 years you give to it). If possible make sure you get a Bachelors degree. To top it get into a top 10 firm. Of course not every one is able to do that (financial or family reasons or opportunity - too many students chasing too few training positions in top 10 firms.) The important thing is to always do your best, in studying in training and then your job do it like an 'ibadah' and God willing you will be rewarded. Ultimately it is what you are (or have become) that takes you where you get, a qualification only gets you in the door, you have to walk your own walk. This has been my mantra, ofcourse a lot of people will say all things,. I know I faced all these things when very few people had even heard about ACCA, but this is not the place for such deliberations. Remember the earlier you get in term with ground realities, the better you are placed to deal with them.

It's not black and white and the world out there is with its prejudice and bias.

Best of luck in whatever you do !
Reply
01-15-2009, 07:40 AM,
 
WELL AFTER READING THE POST ABOVE BY PRACS I ADVISE TO STOP COMPARING ACCA,ICAP,ICAEW and ETC...
the post clearly shows every side of the picture.. and advises as well...
i appreciate the comparisions of different markets... i.e PAKISTAN , THE GULF WORLD AND UK...
HOPE students concerned and the rest of the PEOPLE are now satisfied with what they are studying ..

good luck..
ALI
Reply
01-15-2009, 08:54 AM,
 
I am not going to write a long post here again. But strange to see that Pracs saying to do ACA from ICAP when he himself did ACCA first. So in Kamran terms Prace is FAILURE. Secondly why people should go for ICAP THAT has no standing at all in the world and whoes members are misguiding everyone in Pakistan.

Secondly most ICAP students are inter and not graduate, one should do some research before making such claims.Whereas all ACCA affliciates and members are graduates. On what ground Prace you claimed I do have lack of knowledge. Can you explain. May BE you have all knowledge and others do not know anything.

I never said experience from Big 4 is not important. I do not know poeple who borm earlier and thus qualify earlier think they are always right.

I do not know what people means when they say ICAP has reasonable gobal acceptance. ICAP does not have any gobal acceptance at all. Actually these ICAP people who went for third class qualification want everyone should go for third class qualification so that no one can Challenge them in future, INTERESTING.

One should feel proud as ICAP even has weaker voice and standing than ICAI(India). So ICAI(India) is better than ICAP that is why you feel proud.GOOD

These people are only talking in favour of ICAP because they think its patriotism. They think to say a wrong thing wrong is crime. Agian ICAP only 13 people are working in practice aborad. ITS REALITY.

Khalid
Reply
01-15-2009, 12:55 PM,
 
I just realise that in Pakistan people should go for ICAP. But the problem with this is that somene will start CAT vs ICAP debate.

So rather than giving someone else chance I think I should start CAT vs ICAP debate and start comparing both Syllabus. I am sure CAT will have much more detailed syllabus than ACA from ICAP. Its very true there is no comparision between ACCA and ICAP as ACCA is much superior and ICAP is much inferior.

Conclusion CAT is better than ACA from ICAP. So ICAP is producing accountants who are inferior in quality when compared to accounting technician. I am judging ICAP using ICAP yardstick.

Khalid
Reply
01-15-2009, 04:37 PM,
 
mr pracs thanks for the useful information, i am pro acca because i am doing acca and since u r an acca u should be too. now as u say i lack knowledge of the pakistani market, well yes i do, i am not denying this . i dont live in pak. what i am saying is that there is no such thing as a PAKIstani qualified ACCA and UK qualified ACCA, its simply ACCA.

mind you, its not only pakistani ACA's who are graduates, ACCA's are graduates too.
Reply
01-15-2009, 10:48 PM,
 

Dears,

I, at an early stage of discussion, felt that this man Khalid is insane. Since it was a truth I have posted it as well. I wonder if someone finds it difficult to conclude it so far.

Rabia, your post in response to mine, if seen by you with some focused thought, will lead you to the answers at your own. Let me tell you certain things again. As far as jobs are concerned, most of the accountancy jobs go to simple B.Com people in Pakistan. I don't compare B.Com with ACCA, rather I am telling you a fact. So merely finding job is not any merit if you are talking about premier category within a profession. If one catgory is not able to find what the premier one has, then I wonder what further you will take to understand.

As far as the matter of considerations, reasons, factors behind mutual recognition is concerned, I hoped in my previous post that it will be picked up by your mind if you will go through my previous posts. You see Sadaf agreed with my logic only because she had gone through the thread. Now, if you have gone through the thread and even then you could not get hold of it, this reflects you are an ACCA student.

Shoaib has concluded the differnce of ACCA at UK and ACCA from Pakistan (when compared for job openings at UK) in a nice manner. To reflect what he arrived I said there could be so many valid or invalid reasons. I think one should give some stress to his/her mind for understanding the things. So work hard, one day you will be able to understand it as well.

Please go through the whole list of 80 countries you will come to know why the word 80 requires to be concluded as so called. If you still find ambiguity in it what can I do for you. When you will feel proud of recognition at so many countries like Ghana, what can others do for you. Further, mind it, at Pakistan ACCA is a non profit association registered as company under section 42 of the Companies Ordinance, 1984. Check out and come back to me if you find something different. If you call it recognition who can help you buddy?

The shame/disrespect/disregard/ are not my words. These are used by pro-acca insane stuff. I just told you that if the criteria is same then why should it not apply at India and Pakistan? You did not come up with any logic to answer my question. If you find India and Pakistan un-important even being a Pakistani what else you want should depict your insecurity believeing in your existence as Pakistani?

Shoaib,

Nice comparison! I said it's easier to find out the insanity and you grasped it soon probably for the reason you have seen so many posts on this thread to examin this man.

Pracs,

You are such a nice contributor. I must say people like you are assets of the nation. Keep it up buddy.

Sadaf,

Hows your CFA going? Has it started? The debate on this forum, aww, I know it has been a wastage of time but in my view some one should have been there to sacrifice for creating the balance.

Khalid,

People like you cannot even dream what Pracs is. I am not referring to his job position or earning capacity etc. It's beyond these measures.

I always said that ACCA could be a good qualification for those who do it considering it best in comparison, and for those who do it for enhancing the knwoledge base or memberships for certain plans or reasons or for those who use it as gate-way without any ambiguity and mis-conception in mind. The failures are those who opt it after getting failed from others and eventually start talking GRAPES ARE SOUR!!!

I think this should be my last post on this thread unless something warrants getting clarification.


Best regards,



KAMRAN.
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01-16-2009, 12:50 AM,
 
kamran i dont need your info regarding the pakistani job market, like i siad i live in uae and will be based here. as for the 80 countries is concerned, these 80 countries also included countries like singapore/malaysia/china/new zealand etc etc
not just african countries... what do u mean by saying in a country like GHANA??
if u have time please enhance ure bleak or rather nil knowledge of acca and then point fingures at its recognition .

i still doubt mr shoaibs fact about the difference between ACCA pakistan affiliates and ACCA uk affiliates. finding and getting a job depends on experience as well. simply because one so called mr shoib says his acca friend serves a meal in mcdonalds (wonder if he served him) doesnt apply to every pakistani acca going to uk.

i dont know what foolish thought came in ure mind that made u write this ridiculous sentence

"If you find India and Pakistan un-important even being a Pakistani what else you want should depict your insecurity believeing in your existence as Pakistani? "

probably u feel like this, definetly not me.
Reply
01-16-2009, 12:57 AM,
 
a big hello to all the users of this forum, if u wish to know anything about acca please follow the links

this link provides information regarding ACCA's global partnerships,representation world wide. etc etc

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_Chartered_Certified_Accountants

this is the official ACCA website.

www.accaglobal.com
Reply
01-16-2009, 01:20 AM,
 
Dear Rabia

I told you please do not worry about these ICAP as they are hypocrites.

Just click on the link below. I started this thraed in 2006 this thread has only 9 small post. Go throuh them as it will only take 5 minutes and then you will know mental level of ICAP people. Please read what Prace said on this post. Also read last post too.

http//www.accountancy.com.pk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3776

I told in 2006 that ICAEW is willing to authorise firms in Pakistan. Read post of link I provided ad see what ICAP people said. Just wait for couple of yrs and see the game. I am saying it again and again ACCA will not loose anything in Pakistan and this MOU will work in ACCA favour and this thing has alraedy started i.e CAT from ACCA is getting exemption from ICAEW 5 papers. I was not expecting it so soon.

Now why ICAP singed this degarding MOU with ICAEW when ICAP was not willing to do so in past. Its simple ACCA is capturing ICAP market in Pakistan, therefore to show people that ICAP is still in market ICAP singed this MOU with ICAEW. Remember ICAP is not getting anymthing more than that from ICAEW. I hope you can see ICAP logic behind this MOU.

As far as shoaibs explnantion of UK ACCA qualified and Pakistan ACCA qualified is concerned in totally wrong as I do have link to kamran post where he clearly stated Pakistani ACCA Uk qualified and Pakistani local qualified.

Anyway I reported lies of SKANS to ACCA and alraedy emailed ICAEW Cheif Exective about the term ACCA UK Qualified and ACCA Pakistan Qualified and its looks ICAEW is worried that in this way their brand will be diluted in pakistan because of ICAP people stupid terms.

Give me some time, i will provide link to Kamran some stupid posts. I am going out of London for a week, if I could not post link to Kamran post (because of shortage of time) then I will post it on my return.

You can see Kamran mental level by saying Country like GHANA. If they want to know standing of Pakistan in the world then plz do some reseach. We as a Pakistani nation are suffering only because we are in dinal mode and ICAP is follwoing same plocies. I hope People will not start saying after reading my this post that I am Pakistan enemy.

Do not worry about these hypocrites.

Khalid
Reply
01-16-2009, 02:41 AM,
 
mr khalid thanks for this post . yes i was surprised by mr kamran's saying "country like ghana". well people will surely call u pakistan enemy, if not all , surely 1 will.

i dont worry myself by false claims made about ACCA by people with no knowledeg regarding ACCA. have a nice trip. hope to see you soon on this forum again.

regards
rabia
Reply
01-16-2009, 02:56 AM,
 
I heard when ICAP student join firm first six months of student training (article) are not counted.

Is that right ICAP people. If so then can i ask if ICAP producing accountant or slaves.

For all those ICAP poeple who do not know anything about word Chartered, please do follow the link to have profer knowledge about word Chartered.

http//www.managementaccountant.in/2006/12/word-chartered-hot-debate-in-india_05.html

You will also find in India debate has alraedy started that whehther in Indian Accountants should be called Chartered Accountant or no. Read it may ICAP gain some knowledge. I hope ICAP people will find word Chartered does not belong to them and they are just stealing other names so that can enter in international community of accountants.

Now ICAP can understand why ICAI(India) has strong voice than ICAP. People will be surprised to know that I emailed ICAI(India) and mentioned in my email that I am Pakistani they still replied to my mail. I emailed ACCA many times all times they replied. I emailed to ICAEW chief exective he replied. I emailed to ICAP and mentioned I am pakistani, ICAP did not reply, I then again sent same email to ICAP president no one replied. It is the standard of ICAP.

Rabia you are right ICAP only with ACCA is that its been offered in Pakistan and provides equal opportunity to everyone.

You know that ICAP lost case in Pakistani court against ACCA when ICAP wanted to further reduce exemption for ACCA. You can see game here. From my this statement impression should not be taken that I am in favour of doing ACA from ICAP. I already made it clear I never tried and wished to be part of ICAP.

Khalid
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