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ICAP humiliating itself
01-15-2009, 06:01 AM,
 
Hello Schuaib, So I see you have finally joined in. I must say it is rather amusing along with a little sad. My two cents, I see the pro ACCA group (Khalid and Rabia) reflect a lack of experience and lack of perhaps first hand knowledge of the Pakistani market. When comparing professional qualifications such as accountancy a number of things need to be considered, (as is done with University rankings) so along with content (and the decimation of knowledge) comes reputation (could be a function of history) employers' preference (again a function of alumni) and legal cover (right to audit and provide other services. Keeping this in mind my independent and un biased opinion (being a member of both institutes) is henceforth

<b>Pakistani market</b> ICAP is supreme and is a favourite of employers (why because they are hiring their alumni, presently senior finance are CAs). The fact that becoming an ACA is one of the toughest (and I am not exaggerating here) ordeal one has to go through in his career. This does not mean just the studies and exams (its not rocket science) but to be able to come up with first time passes along with articles, that is what makes it so perfect (time management, professional expertise, people management etc.) If ICAP at some point (although I do not see that happening) allows trainees to article in the industry, employers will clearly prefer people trained in 'practice'.

Of course it goes without saying that ACCA has made quite a leap of faith in the short time that it has been in the Pakistani market. (I remember passing my ACCA and the no. of affiliates barely filled a room, people passing an attempt or two before were literally -the first Pakistan ACCAs.) Compare this with the progress ACMA has done and there is quite a lot of difference.

<b>Gulf Market</b>When I got my first job in a Gulf country, it was based on ACCA, I was yet to be admitted to ICAP (time qualify) and my employer a very senior Partner with a big 4 firm said he didn't care for any other qualification as long as I was an ACCA. Why? given the fact that ACCA, ACA (from any where), CPA all have the same 'legal' rights. What was important on top of a qualification was Big4 accountancy experience. Of course a little premium on remuneration. This is over simplification, I must say.

<b>UK Market</b>Worked for a Big4 accountancy firm, and get this; the firm hired at better position candidates with Big4 experience (non UK experience) holding 'premium accountancy qualification from their country of origin'. Their point of view was that in their experience 'the best talent' (this is an ambiguous term) went on for premium qualifications in their individual countries (commonwealth countries). Of course that did not mean ACCAs (with big 4 non UK experience) were not hired in similar positions. A distinction was made when employing UK qualified ACCAs (mostly qualified with smaller firms with little or no financial services experience-my area of work). However, once you got on every one was at par in terms of opportunities for progress etc. Now, what does that tell you ? You see a UK qualified ACCA would usually not have a graduate degree, which strangely enough is quite important in this part of the world. Whereas a Pakistani ACA, would usually have a Bachelors degree, plus if you've had transferable and comparable skills you are in demand. Having said that legally there is no difference between an ACCA or ACA given the legal backing. And yes in UK I can only call myself a 'Chartered Accountant' because I am an ACCA and not because I am a Pakistani ACA.

What I must tell you here that the Big4 in UK, when offering training contracts are very choosy - top 10 Unis and even if you have a first class degree there is no guarantee, they'll hire you only if they think you have the aptitude, being part of Graduate recruit I have seen people with top A Levels (As and A+s) and degrees from the likes of LSE and Oxford being refused because they did not have the aptitude for working in an accountancy firm (they could be very good researchers but not good with people skills)

<b>ICAEW </b>No one should be surprised why ICAEW has the kind of 'feel good' or 'distinctive' recognition in Pakistan, not ICAA or ICAI (Ireland) or ICAS (the oldest accountancy institute in the world) or CPA (even though it's American !). The reason, well ICAP was founded by ICAEW members of Pakistani origin. Until recently 90% of Partners of the top 10 CA firms in Pakistan were originally ICAEW members, it is only natural for these very senior accountants to covet ICAEW it is after all what made them (and ICAP).

My post here is not examining the policies, commercial sensitivities or exams of any of these institutes. I have merely looked at the 'operational' and 'market' sensitivities of these qualifications.

My advise for students and prospective members is, (some may lash out on me) if you are in Pakistan (irrespective of whether you plan to work overseas) is go for ICAP CA, if you have the time and money (it costs more in terms of opportunity cost- the 6 years you give to it). If possible make sure you get a Bachelors degree. To top it get into a top 10 firm. Of course not every one is able to do that (financial or family reasons or opportunity - too many students chasing too few training positions in top 10 firms.) The important thing is to always do your best, in studying in training and then your job do it like an 'ibadah' and God willing you will be rewarded. Ultimately it is what you are (or have become) that takes you where you get, a qualification only gets you in the door, you have to walk your own walk. This has been my mantra, ofcourse a lot of people will say all things,. I know I faced all these things when very few people had even heard about ACCA, but this is not the place for such deliberations. Remember the earlier you get in term with ground realities, the better you are placed to deal with them.

It's not black and white and the world out there is with its prejudice and bias.

Best of luck in whatever you do !
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Messages In This Thread
ICAP humiliating itself - by mroneflower - 12-19-2008, 03:15 AM
[No subject] - by Shahbaz - 12-19-2008, 12:48 PM
[No subject] - by unseendemon - 12-19-2008, 11:49 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 12-20-2008, 12:23 AM
[No subject] - by ali_boy9 - 12-20-2008, 08:28 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 12-20-2008, 01:12 PM
[No subject] - by mhmirza - 12-20-2008, 05:21 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 12-20-2008, 06:09 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 12-20-2008, 07:04 PM
[No subject] - by ali_boy9 - 12-20-2008, 07:55 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 12-22-2008, 01:29 AM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 12-22-2008, 05:54 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 12-23-2008, 12:45 AM
[No subject] - by mhmirza - 12-23-2008, 07:04 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 12-23-2008, 10:26 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 12-24-2008, 08:58 AM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 12-24-2008, 06:29 PM
[No subject] - by mhmirza - 12-24-2008, 06:29 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 12-24-2008, 06:57 PM
[No subject] - by ali_boy9 - 12-24-2008, 10:44 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 12-25-2008, 02:45 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 12-25-2008, 09:39 AM
[No subject] - by unseendemon - 12-25-2008, 07:58 PM
[No subject] - by Pracs - 12-25-2008, 10:01 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 12-25-2008, 10:43 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 12-26-2008, 01:13 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 12-26-2008, 04:07 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 12-27-2008, 09:25 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 12-28-2008, 04:01 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 12-28-2008, 06:39 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 12-28-2008, 06:42 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 12-28-2008, 08:19 PM
[No subject] - by unseendemon - 12-29-2008, 01:43 AM
[No subject] - by Pracs - 12-29-2008, 05:42 AM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 12-29-2008, 06:08 AM
[No subject] - by mhmirza - 12-29-2008, 04:04 PM
[No subject] - by mhmirza - 12-29-2008, 04:09 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 12-29-2008, 04:50 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 12-29-2008, 06:02 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 12-29-2008, 06:17 PM
[No subject] - by nakaiun - 12-29-2008, 06:27 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 12-29-2008, 06:52 PM
[No subject] - by nakaiun - 12-29-2008, 06:57 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 12-29-2008, 07:12 PM
[No subject] - by ali_boy9 - 12-29-2008, 09:38 PM
[No subject] - by ali_boy9 - 12-29-2008, 09:43 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 12-29-2008, 10:35 PM
[No subject] - by unseendemon - 12-30-2008, 12:06 AM
[No subject] - by usmansss - 12-30-2008, 03:34 AM
[No subject] - by ali_boy9 - 12-30-2008, 05:25 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 12-30-2008, 04:08 PM
[No subject] - by nakaiun - 12-30-2008, 04:19 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 12-30-2008, 05:18 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 12-30-2008, 05:24 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 12-30-2008, 06:31 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 12-30-2008, 07:16 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 12-30-2008, 09:07 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 12-31-2008, 04:06 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 12-31-2008, 09:51 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-01-2009, 03:14 PM
[No subject] - by mhmirza - 01-01-2009, 04:27 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 01-01-2009, 04:35 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-01-2009, 05:46 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-02-2009, 03:13 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-02-2009, 04:39 AM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 01-02-2009, 04:24 PM
[No subject] - by Shahbaz - 01-03-2009, 04:25 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-03-2009, 05:33 AM
[No subject] - by dreamsunlimited - 01-03-2009, 07:51 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-03-2009, 09:42 PM
[No subject] - by faizee - 01-04-2009, 08:32 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 01-04-2009, 09:16 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-04-2009, 10:30 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 01-04-2009, 10:59 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-04-2009, 11:19 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 01-04-2009, 11:48 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 01-04-2009, 11:56 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-05-2009, 12:03 AM
[No subject] - by dreamsunlimited - 01-05-2009, 05:12 AM
[No subject] - by khani - 01-05-2009, 11:46 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-05-2009, 01:57 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-05-2009, 02:35 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 01-05-2009, 05:36 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-05-2009, 06:00 PM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 01-05-2009, 06:45 PM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 01-05-2009, 06:59 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-05-2009, 07:14 PM
[No subject] - by Shahbaz - 01-06-2009, 12:10 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-06-2009, 02:27 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-06-2009, 06:29 AM
[No subject] - by Pracs - 01-06-2009, 08:09 AM
[No subject] - by Pracs - 01-06-2009, 08:14 AM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 01-06-2009, 06:42 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-07-2009, 08:09 AM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 01-07-2009, 11:41 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-08-2009, 03:05 AM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 01-08-2009, 04:14 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-09-2009, 07:13 PM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 01-10-2009, 09:25 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-11-2009, 01:27 AM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 01-11-2009, 03:34 AM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 01-11-2009, 03:55 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-11-2009, 08:44 AM
[No subject] - by Toronto_Boy - 01-12-2009, 06:00 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 01-12-2009, 11:39 PM
[No subject] - by Schuaeb - 01-12-2009, 11:52 PM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 01-13-2009, 01:50 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-13-2009, 05:33 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-13-2009, 06:09 AM
[No subject] - by Ali_87 - 01-13-2009, 05:08 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 01-13-2009, 05:24 PM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 01-13-2009, 08:31 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-13-2009, 10:30 PM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 01-13-2009, 10:54 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-14-2009, 11:30 AM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 01-14-2009, 04:33 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 01-14-2009, 04:34 PM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 01-14-2009, 04:46 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-14-2009, 10:38 PM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 01-14-2009, 10:55 PM
[No subject] - by Schuaeb - 01-15-2009, 12:03 AM
[No subject] - by Schuaeb - 01-15-2009, 12:09 AM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 01-15-2009, 01:22 AM
[No subject] - by sadaf4ahsan - 01-15-2009, 05:34 AM
[No subject] - by Pracs - 01-15-2009, 06:01 AM
[No subject] - by ali_boy9 - 01-15-2009, 07:40 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-15-2009, 08:54 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-15-2009, 12:55 PM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 01-15-2009, 04:37 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 01-15-2009, 10:48 PM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 01-16-2009, 12:50 AM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 01-16-2009, 12:57 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-16-2009, 01:20 AM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 01-16-2009, 02:41 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-16-2009, 02:56 AM
[No subject] - by Pracs - 01-16-2009, 06:14 AM
[No subject] - by Pracs - 01-16-2009, 06:20 AM
[No subject] - by ali_boy9 - 01-16-2009, 06:22 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-16-2009, 09:51 AM
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[No subject] - by ali_boy9 - 01-16-2009, 06:18 PM
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[No subject] - by kamranACA - 01-16-2009, 06:55 PM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 01-16-2009, 09:42 PM
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[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-16-2009, 10:27 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-16-2009, 11:45 PM
[No subject] - by Pracs - 01-17-2009, 07:32 AM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 01-17-2009, 04:05 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 01-17-2009, 05:06 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-17-2009, 09:35 PM
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[No subject] - by ali_boy9 - 01-18-2009, 01:12 AM
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[No subject] - by ali_boy9 - 01-18-2009, 04:23 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-18-2009, 09:15 AM
[No subject] - by Shahbaz - 01-18-2009, 11:46 AM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 01-18-2009, 05:35 PM
[No subject] - by ali_boy9 - 01-18-2009, 07:31 PM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 01-18-2009, 07:59 PM
[No subject] - by ali_boy9 - 01-18-2009, 09:30 PM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 01-18-2009, 10:15 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-19-2009, 02:10 AM
[No subject] - by Pracs - 01-19-2009, 03:38 AM
[No subject] - by ali_boy9 - 01-19-2009, 04:29 AM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 01-19-2009, 04:35 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 01-19-2009, 05:40 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 01-19-2009, 05:55 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 01-19-2009, 06:30 PM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 01-19-2009, 07:44 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 01-19-2009, 08:04 PM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 01-19-2009, 08:39 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 01-19-2009, 10:00 PM
[No subject] - by ali_boy9 - 01-19-2009, 10:15 PM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 01-20-2009, 12:11 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-20-2009, 02:24 AM
[No subject] - by Pracs - 01-20-2009, 07:46 AM
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[No subject] - by rabia-k - 01-20-2009, 04:03 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 01-20-2009, 06:19 PM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 01-20-2009, 10:31 PM
[No subject] - by SAIFEE - 01-21-2009, 04:52 AM
[No subject] - by Toronto_Boy - 01-21-2009, 05:32 AM
[No subject] - by Pracs - 01-21-2009, 06:39 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-21-2009, 09:44 AM
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[No subject] - by rabia-k - 01-21-2009, 06:42 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 01-21-2009, 07:53 PM
[No subject] - by ali_boy9 - 01-21-2009, 10:32 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-22-2009, 01:32 AM
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[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-22-2009, 01:59 AM
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[No subject] - by rabia-k - 01-22-2009, 02:43 AM
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[No subject] - by ali_boy9 - 01-22-2009, 05:07 AM
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[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-22-2009, 07:49 AM
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[No subject] - by kamranACA - 01-22-2009, 05:15 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-22-2009, 05:47 PM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 01-22-2009, 07:10 PM
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[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-22-2009, 07:33 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 01-22-2009, 07:51 PM
[No subject] - by SAIFEE - 01-22-2009, 07:52 PM
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[No subject] - by Pracs - 01-23-2009, 07:35 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-23-2009, 07:47 AM
[No subject] - by Pracs - 01-23-2009, 07:58 AM
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[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-23-2009, 08:14 AM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 01-23-2009, 06:09 PM
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[No subject] - by rabia-k - 01-23-2009, 06:48 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-24-2009, 12:22 AM
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[No subject] - by rabia-k - 01-24-2009, 07:54 PM
[No subject] - by Pracs - 01-24-2009, 08:52 PM
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[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-25-2009, 04:14 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-25-2009, 04:32 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-25-2009, 08:24 AM
[No subject] - by Pracs - 01-25-2009, 11:31 PM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 01-26-2009, 12:11 AM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 01-26-2009, 05:22 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 01-26-2009, 05:26 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 01-26-2009, 05:48 PM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 01-27-2009, 06:08 PM
[No subject] - by Schuaeb - 01-30-2009, 01:37 AM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 01-30-2009, 06:39 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 01-30-2009, 07:30 PM
[No subject] - by Schuaeb - 01-31-2009, 02:33 AM
[No subject] - by Schuaeb - 01-31-2009, 02:46 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-31-2009, 05:23 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-31-2009, 05:29 AM
[No subject] - by Pracs - 01-31-2009, 07:28 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-31-2009, 03:06 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-31-2009, 03:11 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-31-2009, 03:13 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 01-31-2009, 08:02 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-31-2009, 08:13 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-31-2009, 08:15 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 01-31-2009, 08:43 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-31-2009, 09:00 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 01-31-2009, 09:15 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 01-31-2009, 09:39 PM
[No subject] - by Schuaeb - 02-01-2009, 02:13 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 02-01-2009, 08:16 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 02-01-2009, 08:23 AM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 02-02-2009, 08:40 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 02-02-2009, 11:26 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 02-02-2009, 11:44 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 02-03-2009, 12:07 AM
[No subject] - by Pracs - 02-03-2009, 04:29 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 02-03-2009, 08:17 AM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 02-03-2009, 05:38 PM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 02-03-2009, 05:40 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 02-04-2009, 05:31 PM
[No subject] - by Pracs - 02-05-2009, 06:11 AM
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[No subject] - by kamranACA - 02-06-2009, 02:20 PM
[No subject] - by Pracs - 02-07-2009, 06:01 AM
[No subject] - by sumairalam - 02-09-2009, 08:08 PM
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[No subject] - by sumairalam - 02-10-2009, 10:16 PM
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[No subject] - by Pracs - 02-11-2009, 08:04 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 02-11-2009, 09:18 AM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 02-11-2009, 04:34 PM
[No subject] - by Pracs - 02-12-2009, 05:18 AM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 02-12-2009, 05:16 PM
[No subject] - by Pracs - 02-13-2009, 05:55 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 04-01-2009, 03:08 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 04-01-2009, 03:29 PM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 04-01-2009, 04:06 PM
[No subject] - by admin - 04-01-2009, 05:59 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 04-01-2009, 06:53 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 04-01-2009, 07:03 PM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 04-02-2009, 12:21 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 04-02-2009, 12:26 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 04-02-2009, 12:31 AM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 04-02-2009, 12:52 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 04-02-2009, 01:36 AM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 04-02-2009, 01:54 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 04-02-2009, 02:16 AM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 04-02-2009, 02:36 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 04-02-2009, 03:41 AM
[No subject] - by sumairalam - 04-02-2009, 05:34 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 04-02-2009, 06:22 AM
[No subject] - by Toronto_Boy - 04-02-2009, 06:31 AM
[No subject] - by sumairalam - 04-02-2009, 06:43 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 04-02-2009, 06:50 AM
[No subject] - by Toronto_Boy - 04-02-2009, 07:07 AM
[No subject] - by Pracs - 04-02-2009, 07:19 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 04-02-2009, 07:51 AM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 04-02-2009, 03:15 PM
[No subject] - by sumairalam - 04-02-2009, 04:40 PM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 04-02-2009, 07:20 PM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 04-02-2009, 07:29 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 04-02-2009, 11:43 PM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 04-02-2009, 11:53 PM
[No subject] - by Toronto_Boy - 04-03-2009, 01:46 AM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 04-03-2009, 02:04 AM
[No subject] - by Toronto_Boy - 04-03-2009, 03:10 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 04-03-2009, 04:00 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 04-03-2009, 04:22 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 04-03-2009, 04:49 AM
[No subject] - by mroneflower - 04-03-2009, 04:52 AM
[No subject] - by rabia-k - 04-03-2009, 05:08 AM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 04-03-2009, 10:35 PM
[No subject] - by kamranACA - 04-03-2009, 11:00 PM

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