09-20-2008, 05:19 AM
Dear Students and Interested People
In my above posts, I have already asked to save time and efforts to students who want to compete in global markets by getting international designations. In todayâs world, if EVENTUALLY one would be COMPELLED to get an international designation, then why not in first place, specially those who can afford today and wants to go abroad in future. Students of Pakistani accounting associations should think and accept that indirect route of foreign qualifications i.e. AFTER successfully completing their program and getting charter/certificate is the MAIN HURDLE in getting 2nd international designation that is LINKED to FIRST getting Pakistani designation under any MOU like with ICAP. 98% of entrants would not achieve this goal neither Pakistani designation nor foreign, if they adopt this INDIRECT route. Eventually, they (i.e."refugees of CA" in language of their hero, atleast now they should understand this privilaged game) would be lined-up for getting private MA (Economics) forms, LLB admissions, or local private and probably unrecognized MBA programs, in order to fill-up deficiencies in their education, just like their predecessors. ONLY members of elite club of 4000 professionals would be able to get 2nd international designation, NOT ordinary students of Pakistani accounting associations. It is an attractive but false illusion and a bait to allure them, being marketed to them by Pakistani associations. Why not students who can afford should go and get it DIRECTLY in FIRST PLACE? Though it is a personal choice based on oneâs goals and circumstances, but still questions raised in my 2nd long post above remain intact. Students should think about those with objective and independent state of mind without influence and bias. Moreover, almost all Pakistani designated CAs/CMAs do struggle in Canada to achieve their acceptance in north american highly competitive markets. They try to get Canadian/US designations here through direct or indirect paths, apply for exemptions and study again for years with all difficulties that I have mentioned in first post. Students can see evaluation criteria of Canadian CA association for Pakistani designation holders in the following link. Thats why members of Pakistani accounting associations complain about Canada, because she does not give them red carpet treatment. Again, my question to students remain valid that if they would do hardwork later for foreign association, then why don't do it in first place? Again, if they do it INDIRECTLY, then why not directly?
Without going into personal conflicts with anyone, I just want to explain some fallacies created by people over the years.
Arguments about merits and demerits of any country or region are highly debatable and depend upon personal views and conditions, certainly NOT the objective of this thread. One should open a new thread for other interested participants.
Moreover, logic developed for Pakistani CAs based on MOU with ICAEW and saying that if other accounting institutes have such arrangements with ICEAW then it's indirectly having similar opportunities for Pakistani CAs (which means if institute A has arrangement with B, and B has with C, resultant, C has arrangement/opportunity for A) is basically wrong logic/argument, practically inefficient choice/decision, and creates following situation
(1) Inefficient Choice Again, the same question, which route provides time, efforts, and resources efficient solution to reach a goal? Logical answer is direct, NOT indirect route.
(2) Canadian CA institute CICA has arrangements (reciprocity) with ICAEW, but Pakistani CAs are specifically UNRECOGNIZED for CICA. Please see the link provided below and scroll down to the end and see unrecognized bodies for CICA. So, institute C (i.e. CICA), has arrangement for institute B (i.e. ICAEW), but NO arrangement for institute A (i.e. ICAP).
(3) Identity Loss If a Pakistani CA gets ICAEWâs CA, even then he would get CICAâs CA based on ICAEWâs CA, and NOT based on Pakistani CA that still remains UNRECOGNIZED to CICA and cannot be presented to public in Canada. Please see representation rules in Canada. It is nothing but entry in new country through photo change on someone elseâs passport. Some people are good in this trade in back home.
(4) Impractical Option Has anyone calculated actual efforts involved in this option? Only members of Pakistani designations can provide such options. Sheer example of incompetence.
Regarding arrangements between global accounting designations, students may go on following links to nourish their knowledge and reach independent and unbiased decision.
http//www.globalaccountingalliance.com/Alliancebodies1.html
http//www.icao.on.ca/Admissions/OccupationalFactSheet/1010page1361.aspx
http//www.icaew.com/index.cfm/route/125059/icaew_ga/en/Home/Join_us/Join_as_a_reciprocal_member/Joining_as_a_reciprocal_member
http//www.icaew.com/index.cfm/route/157505/icaew_ga/en/public/Become_a_chartered_accountant/ACA_Worldwide/157505/ACA_training_in_Pakistan
Students should also consider that even AFTER getting FULL membership of ICAP, satisfaction of 24 MONTHS EXPERIENCE REQUIREMNT IN PRE-APPROVED TRAINING CENTRES IN PAKISTAN could be a HURDLE and HIGHLY COMPETITIVE, even if someone ignores existence of ACCA and CIMA members in Pakistan who would also be competing with them to get jobs in pre-approved training firms in Pakistan. If someone argues that applicants can go outside of Pakistan to satisfy 24 months experience requirement, then again original arguments of my previous post remain valid. Students should foresee the situation today.
Even after provision of official web-links to MAIN LEGAL SOURCE AND PRE-ESTABLISHED ASSESSMENT CRITERIA provided by Canadian GOVERNMENT for Canadian immigration in my previous post, claim of short waiting time resonates nothing but illusive and deceitful âprofessionally qualified legal opinionsâ which are generally available from so-called immigration consultants in every corner of Pakistan these days. Do professionally designated accounting practitioners in Pakistan bypass IAS (or whatever standards or established criteria they follow) and claim short cuts? This claim lacks tangible, persuasive, and sufficient evidence. By the way, I donât know much about work ethics in practice of accounting in Pakistan, but Immigration Officers in Canadian embassies do "understand" and follow PRE-ESTABLISHED RULES given by their government strictly. And, yes, I "understand" how "reliable legal opinions" are available in Pakistan and situation of Law.
Moreover, display of other side of the picture could be discussed in detail, but it is not the OBJECTIVE of this thread. Again, one should open another thread for interested participants.
As a learning case opportunity, students should also understand and learn how our educated professionals ruin a positive initiation and activity in back home causing inverse progress.
Regards
In my above posts, I have already asked to save time and efforts to students who want to compete in global markets by getting international designations. In todayâs world, if EVENTUALLY one would be COMPELLED to get an international designation, then why not in first place, specially those who can afford today and wants to go abroad in future. Students of Pakistani accounting associations should think and accept that indirect route of foreign qualifications i.e. AFTER successfully completing their program and getting charter/certificate is the MAIN HURDLE in getting 2nd international designation that is LINKED to FIRST getting Pakistani designation under any MOU like with ICAP. 98% of entrants would not achieve this goal neither Pakistani designation nor foreign, if they adopt this INDIRECT route. Eventually, they (i.e."refugees of CA" in language of their hero, atleast now they should understand this privilaged game) would be lined-up for getting private MA (Economics) forms, LLB admissions, or local private and probably unrecognized MBA programs, in order to fill-up deficiencies in their education, just like their predecessors. ONLY members of elite club of 4000 professionals would be able to get 2nd international designation, NOT ordinary students of Pakistani accounting associations. It is an attractive but false illusion and a bait to allure them, being marketed to them by Pakistani associations. Why not students who can afford should go and get it DIRECTLY in FIRST PLACE? Though it is a personal choice based on oneâs goals and circumstances, but still questions raised in my 2nd long post above remain intact. Students should think about those with objective and independent state of mind without influence and bias. Moreover, almost all Pakistani designated CAs/CMAs do struggle in Canada to achieve their acceptance in north american highly competitive markets. They try to get Canadian/US designations here through direct or indirect paths, apply for exemptions and study again for years with all difficulties that I have mentioned in first post. Students can see evaluation criteria of Canadian CA association for Pakistani designation holders in the following link. Thats why members of Pakistani accounting associations complain about Canada, because she does not give them red carpet treatment. Again, my question to students remain valid that if they would do hardwork later for foreign association, then why don't do it in first place? Again, if they do it INDIRECTLY, then why not directly?
Without going into personal conflicts with anyone, I just want to explain some fallacies created by people over the years.
Arguments about merits and demerits of any country or region are highly debatable and depend upon personal views and conditions, certainly NOT the objective of this thread. One should open a new thread for other interested participants.
Moreover, logic developed for Pakistani CAs based on MOU with ICAEW and saying that if other accounting institutes have such arrangements with ICEAW then it's indirectly having similar opportunities for Pakistani CAs (which means if institute A has arrangement with B, and B has with C, resultant, C has arrangement/opportunity for A) is basically wrong logic/argument, practically inefficient choice/decision, and creates following situation
(1) Inefficient Choice Again, the same question, which route provides time, efforts, and resources efficient solution to reach a goal? Logical answer is direct, NOT indirect route.
(2) Canadian CA institute CICA has arrangements (reciprocity) with ICAEW, but Pakistani CAs are specifically UNRECOGNIZED for CICA. Please see the link provided below and scroll down to the end and see unrecognized bodies for CICA. So, institute C (i.e. CICA), has arrangement for institute B (i.e. ICAEW), but NO arrangement for institute A (i.e. ICAP).
(3) Identity Loss If a Pakistani CA gets ICAEWâs CA, even then he would get CICAâs CA based on ICAEWâs CA, and NOT based on Pakistani CA that still remains UNRECOGNIZED to CICA and cannot be presented to public in Canada. Please see representation rules in Canada. It is nothing but entry in new country through photo change on someone elseâs passport. Some people are good in this trade in back home.
(4) Impractical Option Has anyone calculated actual efforts involved in this option? Only members of Pakistani designations can provide such options. Sheer example of incompetence.
Regarding arrangements between global accounting designations, students may go on following links to nourish their knowledge and reach independent and unbiased decision.
http//www.globalaccountingalliance.com/Alliancebodies1.html
http//www.icao.on.ca/Admissions/OccupationalFactSheet/1010page1361.aspx
http//www.icaew.com/index.cfm/route/125059/icaew_ga/en/Home/Join_us/Join_as_a_reciprocal_member/Joining_as_a_reciprocal_member
http//www.icaew.com/index.cfm/route/157505/icaew_ga/en/public/Become_a_chartered_accountant/ACA_Worldwide/157505/ACA_training_in_Pakistan
Students should also consider that even AFTER getting FULL membership of ICAP, satisfaction of 24 MONTHS EXPERIENCE REQUIREMNT IN PRE-APPROVED TRAINING CENTRES IN PAKISTAN could be a HURDLE and HIGHLY COMPETITIVE, even if someone ignores existence of ACCA and CIMA members in Pakistan who would also be competing with them to get jobs in pre-approved training firms in Pakistan. If someone argues that applicants can go outside of Pakistan to satisfy 24 months experience requirement, then again original arguments of my previous post remain valid. Students should foresee the situation today.
Even after provision of official web-links to MAIN LEGAL SOURCE AND PRE-ESTABLISHED ASSESSMENT CRITERIA provided by Canadian GOVERNMENT for Canadian immigration in my previous post, claim of short waiting time resonates nothing but illusive and deceitful âprofessionally qualified legal opinionsâ which are generally available from so-called immigration consultants in every corner of Pakistan these days. Do professionally designated accounting practitioners in Pakistan bypass IAS (or whatever standards or established criteria they follow) and claim short cuts? This claim lacks tangible, persuasive, and sufficient evidence. By the way, I donât know much about work ethics in practice of accounting in Pakistan, but Immigration Officers in Canadian embassies do "understand" and follow PRE-ESTABLISHED RULES given by their government strictly. And, yes, I "understand" how "reliable legal opinions" are available in Pakistan and situation of Law.
Moreover, display of other side of the picture could be discussed in detail, but it is not the OBJECTIVE of this thread. Again, one should open another thread for interested participants.
As a learning case opportunity, students should also understand and learn how our educated professionals ruin a positive initiation and activity in back home causing inverse progress.
Regards
