Accountancy Forum

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Dears,

I just saw this thread.

In some areas I agree with the statement of wandering star. ICAP has monoply in Pakistan being the local charter.

Rivalery exists in all competeing professions. Same is apparent from wandering star's own analysis where he made ACCA some SAHEEFA-E-AASMANI in comparison to CA.

ACCA is costly as compared to CA in Pakistan. etc etc.

However, on many issues (which appear to be little bit biased) I dont agree at all. I can have a long debate but will not do due to shortage of time and lesser importance of the issue.

Still, I just want to clarify some points very briefly for Pakistani students.

1. One, if dont have to go abroad, should take his decisions in Pakistani perspective and not in UK's perspective.

2. In UK accountancy is considered the easiest profession. We must not have a doubt over it. But in Pakistan CA specifically is deemed a very esteemed profession and difficult task. These (PAK AND UK) are two economies having various ecological, traditional, intellectual and economical conditions. We should not mess up our conditions with what is going on at any other place.

3. In UK still ICAEW's CA is considered more esteemed in comparison to ACCA. This is ground reality as far as key jobs (decision making seats) of big companies are concerened. What is normally published in magazines is always affected by the opinions of writers. [Since ACCAs have nothing to do they are more active in such activities every where.]{my biased view}. In fact ICAEW's CAs dont have to stricke for it. Grapes are not going to sour simply due to propaganda of ACCAs. Dont just look middle level or initial higher level jobs. See what happens on the top most exectuve jobs.

4. Since ACCA is simply an association and not a major charterholder of any country like CAs and normally operates through a company incorporated for such purpose (in Pakistan under section 42 of CO84), it does not compete the local charterholder anywhere in the world. I mean check it in Pakistan, India, China, Canada, USA, Australia, Malaysia, Hong kong and even in UK where it got some sort of charter I think. If at all places the local charterholders are in better position (again due to whatever alegations and reasons) then why a man who is not going to leave his country should go for it.

5. In Pakistan ACCA is far behind CA in its market demand and remunerations being offered. If some one sees ACCA written along with ACA for some job offer, he should try to know how many ACCAs have been finally selected against CAs. I dont talk about those jobs where CAs dont show any interest. Now, reasons could be enormous i.e. monoply, rivalery, jealousy, self protection, lesser introduction etc etc but the conclusion has to remain un-affected.

It is our problem that when we see some one in another country earning better in comparison to Pakistan we feel his qualification has a great demand over there. In fact wherever we go, even in gulf, the top level executive seats are not with ACCAs (in majority of cases) although at Gulf people dont much differentiate various degrees and qualifications. Simply getting jobs or availability of jobs is not a measure anywhere and even at UAE or UK. One must analyse who is sitting as executive directors, CFOs, Directors etc of big trading and other companies. A person at UAE can give better comparison. Now if some one has dual qualification i.e. CA as well as ACCA, I dont accept it a miracle of ACCA if he is in good position. My opinion may differ the opinion of Pracs and others on this issue.

So we should say the right as right and better as better. I again say reasons could be enormous and "grapes are sour" cannot work everywhere.

Sorry for some harsh words. Wandering star requested others to use decent language but himself used everything to raise this issue.

Regards,

Kamran.

Wandering Star I was very impressed by your article. I have passed 6 of My ACCA exams from F1 To F6 but I am worried about finding the right place to develop myself as a finance professional. I have heard that getting employment in Big4 or an Industry leader is very difficult and small firms only employ at operating levels where work environment is unhealthy and pay is minimal. I would appreciate any advise from you regarding this matter.

I just read the post
About ACCAs Association word, read the ACCA history
ACCA is in no way lower to ICAEW ACA in the uk and is UK's prestige qualification. Since it is a UK qualification, you can say it is a local chartholder there. ACCAs can practice in the UK

Hey guys...I need your help.
I am about to finish my A-levels and I want to know which is a better career C.A or ACCA. I have read a lot of forum and decided that ACCA is better, but some of my relatives believe that C.A is better.
Which one would have a better market in the near future?e.g 5-6 years?
Thank you!

Wandering Star,

all i ll say is.. " CHA GAYE HO " , great, very informative post indeed.

@KAMRANACA Saahab

Sir, you know i have a great deal of respect for you but i was not expecting a comment like.. " since ACCA's have nothing to do... " from you. I dont find it anywhere close to truth.

I have to point out Wandering Stars comment on the examinations of ICAP and honestly, ALHAMDULILLAH the exam he mentioned and the advanced financial accounting exams, i think if marking was done fair , i could pass them in a single go. I find NOTHING too difficult or EXTRAORDINARY about them.

Good luck to all!

Also KamranACA Saahab,

I happened to take this one lecture from this C.A from ICAP who works at PWC Bahrain. I asked him to tell us about what should we expect in the future and he said ... ACCA's need not to worry, giving the example of his work place, saying that PWC Bahrain is flooded with ACCA's and throughout the Middle east.

I just think it will be a bit shallow to say that ACCA's have nothing to do, sure ACCA's in Pak land dont do as well as ICAP members ( $ wise ) but GLOBALLY...its way different.

ACCAite

Thanks for your respect and nice words brother. One thing keep in mind, every post has a reason and back ground and is as per situation of given time. You cannot simply dig a thing of 2006 or 2007 and compare it with 2010. This post was replying some one sided view that was imperative.

As far as "flooded" is concerned, you should have learnt by now what happens if some thing floods in. I believe I need not to explain it to you. Exactly same has been happening and will be happening in very near future. We all will witness it; and then some fellows will say "you never said so".

The way ACCA students are examined, they way they are supported and brought up, the way they are left on the mercy of localized bodies (without any reasonable efforts) is not something to be unfolded. To avoid controvercies, let me simply sign off from this topic.

I always appreciate those who love doing ACCA and make it their primary objective in life and a core qualification. I have no concern as well with those who are doing it after facing failure from some other designation; yet I don't like them deep in my heart. Of course it does not affect any one.

Dard,

Brother, you will very soon come to know what is what. There are only a few years left. May God bless you.

One thing; when some body writes to inform you about something, it does not necessarily mean he is against some thing or it has been written in your enemity. Certainly there is no enemity. Even if it hurts the sentiments, one should at least consider what has been said.

Time is the judge and we all have to see the judgement. Shart zindagee ke hai.

God bless you both.

I just recalled a man "moroneflower" who claimed some two years (roughly) back that ACCA will engulf the whole world in two years and he challenged every one to bear with him for two years. Almost two years (roughly) have passed; just to recall.

Regards,

KAMRAN.

//ACCA's need not to worry, giving the example of his work place, saying that PWC Bahrain is flooded with ACCA's and throughout the Middle east. //

if this true, then the situation is very worrying. there are already many many ACCA students in the middle east.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by kamranACA
 ACCAite

Thanks for your respect and nice words brother. One thing keep in mind, every post has a reason and back ground and is as per situation of given time. You cannot simply dig a thing of 2006 or 2007 and compare it with 2010. This post was replying some one sided view that was imperative.

As far as "flooded" is concerned, you should have learnt by now what happens if some thing floods in. I believe I need not to explain it to you. Exactly same has been happening and will be happening in very near future. We all will witness it; and then some fellows will say "you never said so".

The way ACCA students are examined, they way they are supported and brought up, the way they are left on the mercy of localized bodies (without any reasonable efforts) is not something to be unfolded. To avoid controvercies, let me simply sign off from this topic.

I always appreciate those who love doing ACCA and make it their primary objective in life and a core qualification. I have no concern as well with those who are doing it after facing failure from some other designation; yet I don't like them deep in my heart. Of course it does not affect any one.

Dard,

Brother, you will very soon come to know what is what. There are only a few years left. May God bless you.

One thing; when some body writes to inform you about something, it does not necessarily mean he is against some thing or it has been written in your enemity. Certainly there is no enemity. Even if it hurts the sentiments, one should at least consider what has been said.

Time is the judge and we all have to see the judgement. Shart zindagee ke hai.

God bless you both.

I just recalled a man "moroneflower" who claimed some two years (roughly) back that ACCA will engulf the whole world in two years and he challenged every one to bear with him for two years. Almost two years (roughly) have passed; just to recall.


Regards,

KAMRAN.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
ACCA supporting its students all the way by providing resources and advises is not something to be hidden, and is not hidden in any way. The way ACCA students are examined is just like any other professional qualification like ICAEW. Had its examining quality been poor, it wouldn't have been a professional qualification in the first place, and wouldn't have been recognised globally in the job market
ACCAs are not left on mercy of local qualifications. The usage of the word "mercy" was disappointing. Not all of the ACCA students would want to get indulged in public practice. Most of them would move to the industry. I don't see any need of the support of a local qualification's certificate in industry-based jobs in countries like Pakistan, China, ireland etc. Even if an ACCA wants to start public practice, the local institute won't have MERCY on the ACCA and just give him away the practice certificate, rather the ACCA will EARN the public practice certificate by meeting additional requirements. You used the word mercy as if ACCA members and students are beggers and local qualifications will have pitty on them and give the practice certificate
The objective of ACCA is to be the leading professional accountancy qualification around the globe by reputation, influence and size. Regarding your recalling of moronflower's wording, Over the past two years, ACCA has been in fast progress and growth towards achieving its objective, and that can't be denied

@dard
u are still in theory means not YET enter in market.meray bhai it is true that there are too much ACCA in market.and condition is going to worse as just check out recent number of affiliates of DEC 2009 attempt.just foresee what would be total number of ACCA in pakisat in 2015 and what would be in 2020.and there is no doubt ACCA dnt have to concern with the students very much. but they are concerned with growth which means more revenue.sory to say PAKISTANI industry growth is far behind of ACCA so called growth in pakistan.so result in excess ACCA .
now after UK qualification. USA qualification CIA is doing same thing. and soon Pakistan would be best market for them. As students are rushing towards CIA also .
ACCA is higher or lower than ICAEW , i think majority of ACCA have dnt concern with it.As we would remain in Pakistan.i feel that ACCA is very gud in theory, in slogans , in seminars . but in the end we have to go for ICAP member for training.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by toor
 @dard
u are still in theory means not YET enter in market.meray bhai it is true that there are too much ACCA in market.and condition is going to worse as just check out recent number of affiliates of DEC 2009 attempt.just foresee what would be total number of ACCA in pakisat in 2015 and what would be in 2020.and there is no doubt ACCA dnt have to concern with the students very much. but they are concerned with growth which means more revenue.sory to say PAKISTANI industry growth is far behind of ACCA so called growth in pakistan.so result in excess ACCA .
now after UK qualification. USA qualification CIA is doing same thing. and soon Pakistan would be best market for them. As students are rushing towards CIA also .
ACCA is higher or lower than ICAEW , i think majority of ACCA have dnt concern with it.As we would remain in Pakistan.i feel that ACCA is very gud in theory, in slogans , in seminars . but in the end we have to go for ICAP member for training.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I quoted ACCA's objective, and that it's been fulfilled, although at the expense of proper training procedures in individual countries
There is no "theory" in saying that ACCA is growing in Pakistan and other countries, as many PpL, including kamran bhai, have acknowledged. I did not deny the fact that ACCA has alot of market share in Pakistan. That could have both positive and negative aspects. The number of affiliates shown in ACCA's website is Worldwide, and not just Pakistan. There are not many first attempters out there, and that is what would count for employers being a first attempter. Market would be become saturated with ACCA affiliates in the future, but only the best would survive
In my previous post i only tried to answer some issues raised by Kamran bhai

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rabia-k
 //ACCA's need not to worry, giving the example of his work place, saying that PWC Bahrain is flooded with ACCA's and throughout the Middle east. //

if this true, then the situation is very worrying. there are already many many ACCA students in the middle east.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Perhaps i should rephrase what i said as i didnt quite mean what it looked like. From what he told me, alot of those working at PWC are ACCAs ... which surely doesnt sound worrying to me.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rabia-k
 //ACCA's need not to worry, giving the example of his work place, saying that PWC Bahrain is flooded with ACCA's and throughout the Middle east. //

if this true, then the situation is very worrying. there are already many many ACCA students in the middle east.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Plus, if u look at the bigger picture, maybe there are too many finance professionals around? maybe way too many people are taking up accounting and finance as their career so i am sure ACCA alone is not to be blamed. If the market is gonna hit hard, it will ... not just for ACCAs...for others too.

Dard

Time is the only judge and fact of life has to be witnessed. Why should we debate for no conclusion?

You cannot understand the meaning of "mercy" at this stage; you will uncover it in the times to come.

Regards,

KAMRAN.

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