Accountancy Forum

Indeed facts have to be witnessed. Two years back, we rarely used to see any job advertisement for ACCAs in the private and public sector, today we see them more often. Two years back ACCA was known not to many PpL, today many PpL know about it. Time does tell many things

Dear

This misconception did exist two years back about jobs; just check out the posts at this forum in 2008 dates.

I lately told you that there is a difference in theoratical and practical perspective. No one could ever figure out how many such so-called jobs ever went to ACCAs where this designation was among the competitors. We have over 300-350 audit, consultancy, tax and other clients, and I knew of very very few clients (at one there is a part qualified ACCA, and on other there are probably one or two ACCAs (members)). In all cases working under CAs. Besides this "over 300", due to friendship circle, I may be knowing many more and rarely there is any ACCA on key position. Keep in mind "key positions"; and this is the situation where myth of "publishing of such designation for job openings" did exist for more than your so-called two years.

I simply invite you to carry out a survey of "key positions" across the industries (be it manufacturing or services), specially the bigger names and key players of the market and then come up with something to prove a point. If you find out some good examples then also check to whom they are reporting? This will refine your analysis further.

Certainly you don't "even" need to survey the key positions at "profession" in Pakistan.

So dear, ACCAs as a result of structure and design are dependent upon CAs in Pakistan; either in studies (since real majority of renowned and reliable teachers are ICAP members), or in training (none of ACCA firm is there to tarin), or in jobs (in almost all cases they are even interviewed and recruited by CAs), and in professional life (since they have to be reportable to them always in signifant cases).

It's tough to win a field where your teachers, your trainers, your prinicpals and mentors, your bosses and the ones who provide you a bit of room etc are all those to whom you dream to compete. Certainly ACCA is in Pak because CAs institute did not mind it; and this is because they are not a threat at all, rather are a cheap workforce to assist.

I did not want to write this since I don't now wish to affect peoples sentiments; but your continuing argument made me writing this. A lot more can be produced, if this remains unresolved. Otherwise, if any one is wise, he can drive results and make projections.

You are in very early stage; I advise you to learn a lot from the practical difficulties of life before drawing final conclusions so that the achieved results are in line with what you forecast.

I wish you best of luck and a prosperous and satisfied future.

Regards

Kamran.

Salam,

I have this question in mind which I would like to be clarified.I have seen students who are doing ACCA arguing that ACCA is a growing body & it is well on track to compete with ICAEW & other professional qualifications....& it's very near in achieving it's so called Destination/Objective.

But what I would like to ask is,as far as I see it & I am sure you would agree with this if you look it from my point of view that

"Why should High School leaver like me join a body that is WIP (work in progress)??Why not join a body that is already well established from before or an institue that has already achieved it's objective?"

Now why I am calling ACCA as WIP should be clear to all.[)] I am looking forward for some productive comments as I believe this is a genuine question!!

Regards.

Dear Osama Rules,
I don't want to indulge in ACCA/ICAEW debate but opportunity is also a factor.As u live in Saudia , u may cross the causeway to Bahrain and appear in ICAEW exams there.But here in Pakistan , starting ICAEW from scrap is hard because intial 12 papers r not available here.
Regards.

oh and its pretty sad to see that MANY of the ICAP students use ACCA books....i mean somebody tell them man...they will doomed...they shouldnt do so...i mean ACCA books for Gods sakes?

this is not exaggerated....i have quite a few in my family who are ICAP students apart from the obvious ( law n tax ) they prefer to use ACCA books. Be it something minor...but its an irony that our pro ICAP fellows ' FORGET ' to mention such things.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by kamranACA
 Dear

This misconception did exist two years back about jobs; just check out the posts at this forum in 2008 dates.

I lately told you that there is a difference in theoratical and practical perspective. No one could ever figure out how many such so-called jobs ever went to ACCAs where this designation was among the competitors. We have over 300-350 audit, consultancy, tax and other clients, and I knew of very very few clients (at one there is a part qualified ACCA, and on other there are probably one or two ACCAs (members)). In all cases working under CAs. Besides this "over 300", due to friendship circle, I may be knowing many more and rarely there is any ACCA on key position. Keep in mind "key positions"; and this is the situation where myth of "publishing of such designation for job openings" did exist for more than your so-called two years.

I simply invite you to carry out a survey of "key positions" across the industries (be it manufacturing or services), specially the bigger names and key players of the market and then come up with something to prove a point. If you find out some good examples then also check to whom they are reporting? This will refine your analysis further.

Certainly you don't "even" need to survey the key positions at "profession" in Pakistan.

So dear, ACCAs as a result of structure and design are dependent upon CAs in Pakistan; either in studies (since real majority of renowned and reliable teachers are ICAP members), or in training (none of ACCA firm is there to tarin), or in jobs (in almost all cases they are even interviewed and recruited by CAs), and in professional life (since they have to be reportable to them always in signifant cases).

It's tough to win a field where your teachers, your trainers, your prinicpals and mentors, your bosses and the ones who provide you a bit of room etc are all those to whom you dream to compete. Certainly ACCA is in Pak because CAs institute did not mind it; and this is because they are not a threat at all, rather are a cheap workforce to assist.

I did not want to write this since I don't now wish to affect peoples sentiments; but your continuing argument made me writing this. A lot more can be produced, if this remains unresolved. Otherwise, if any one is wise, he can drive results and make projections.

You are in very early stage; I advise you to learn a lot from the practical difficulties of life before drawing final conclusions so that the achieved results are in line with what you forecast.

I wish you best of luck and a prosperous and satisfied future.

Regards

Kamran.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Dear Kamran bhai,
ICAP has been in existence for decades in Pakistan. Whichever qualification comes to into being first obviously has a hold on market due to its comparatively old age and market perception created thereof. Since it's older than ACCA in Pakistan, all of the high profile jobs(which require extensive experience) are taken by senior professionals who have the required experience and expertise for those jobs.
ACCA is still in the stage of recognition and growth in Pakistan. I hope you understood my point.
I expect a well-balanced and independent answer from professionals

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Osama Rules
 Salam,

I have this question in mind which I would like to be clarified.I have seen students who are doing ACCA arguing that ACCA is a growing body & it is well on track to compete with ICAEW & other professional qualifications....& it's very near in achieving it's so called Destination/Objective.

But what I would like to ask is,as far as I see it & I am sure you would agree with this if you look it from my point of view that

"Why should High School leaver like me join a body that is WIP (work in progress)??Why not join a body that is already well established from before or an institue that has already achieved it's objective?"

Now why I am calling ACCA as WIP should be clear to all.[)] I am looking forward for some productive comments as I believe this is a genuine question!!

Regards.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
As far as competing is concerned, i would advise you to see the question papers and syllabus of both ACCA and ICAEW. Many PpL out there allege that ACCA is not upto the mark in terms of content and examining, without actually knowing its exam standard. They argue that ACCA is EASY because of its examining standard. I have argued these beliefs in this forum, and you should check out [url="http//www.accountancy.com.pk/forum/topic.asp?topic_id=9712"]resolving rumours and myths about ACCA in Pak[/url]
It can't be denied that in Pakistan ACCA is recognised more now compared to, say, four years back. The choice of accountancy institutes depends solely on you. If you see yourself in Pakistan practising in some years time, then definitely go for ICAP. You are right in saying ACCA is still WIP here.
In Pakistan the perception has been built in such way that ACCAs(who undergo proper training) are considered lower to C.As in terms of everything(eg knowledge, technical and analyticall skills). A sensible, impartial and qualified person would strongly argue this view of many

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Osama Rules
 Salam,

I have this question in mind which I would like to be clarified.I have seen students who are doing ACCA arguing that ACCA is a growing body & it is well on track to compete with ICAEW & other professional qualifications....& it's very near in achieving it's so called Destination/Objective.

But what I would like to ask is,as far as I see it & I am sure you would agree with this if you look it from my point of view that

"Why should High School leaver like me join a body that is WIP (work in progress)??Why not join a body that is already well established from before or an institue that has already achieved it's objective?"

Now why I am calling ACCA as WIP should be clear to all.[)] I am looking forward for some productive comments as I believe this is a genuine question!!

Regards.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

depends on which "established body" you are talking about here.

not everyone can fly to the US for CPA(AICPA) exams. you also need to be a graduate to join CPA. one can join ACCA right after A LEVELS.

to join the ICAA one needs to fly to Australia, again its not an easy task.

for ICAEW
1. lack of tuition providers. a student wanting to study for ICAEW would most probably have to fly to UK for tuition.

2. Expensive
3.you need a graduate to join ICAEW or at least have good grades in your A LEVELs. why would a firm hire an A LEVEL student, if it can take in a graduate.
whether a student on student visa would get an ICAEW contract in UK is still a big question mark.
4. Lack of training contracts.
5. ACCA affiliates, students (not just members) can easily join the ICAEW and receive exemptions on a paper to paper basis.
6. if an expat Pakistani wishes to go to Pakistan he/she will be exempted from 4 modules! and can also study for the ICAP CA qual.

ACCA is far more flexible.

Dears,

Some strange question has been raised by ACCAite. ACCAite, do you know how all the study material of any designation came/comes into development either it is ACCA or CIMA or ICAP or whatever and who writes such books?

Do you make any correlation of books with the HOLD on a given market? Do you make any correlation of market demand of professionals of a given body with the books they provide for study and preparation? Do you believe the key market positions are allocated by employers after inquiring the candidates "which books have you read"? Will you at any real life interview ask your prospective employer that I have read bala bala study material, so, I should be preferred or my emoluments should be greater? Loving analysis by you; and it speaks out.

Brother, there can be a lot of fronts where Pakistan as a nation would be lagging behind. Professionals of whatever field make out their careers by studying whatever material they acquire. People do study many books and resources for a single subject; and there was a time when a complete research was used to be instituted by students of professional bodies. They used to explore libraries and go through many ideas and materials. Certainly they were far better and much more learned although qualifying at that time was difficult.

Still, people tend to experience many things and give a look to various materials. This makes out "people" and not the "books" or "material" they study or go through. This is the essense.

Yes, I agree that CA students do use material of ACCA, CIMA (and may be others as well) along with some standardized well reputed authors that are always at the core of knowledge and development. I personally used a book of CIMA for one subject during my studies and I have no hesitation to say that it was such a nice work. Who is denying the good quality of any material, if it is there? Have you seen any post? The thread being discussed is not about study materials; so this matter was not so far discussed.

I at the same time again remind you that whatever books you have or you study; in majority of the cases (in Pak), your teachers are CAs (or CMAs) who mostly have not studied ACCA or whatever materials in their times. It tells you that a "person" is the ultimate and not the "materials".

One last thing, study materials don't have any correlation with market position and demand of professionals. Academics and professional growth although go side by side but the profession is the eventual element. I hope you can understand.

Regards,

KAMRAN.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Osama Rules
 Salam,

I have this question in mind which I would like to be clarified.I have seen students who are doing ACCA arguing that ACCA is a growing body & it is well on track to compete with ICAEW & other professional qualifications....& it's very near in achieving it's so called Destination/Objective.

But what I would like to ask is,as far as I see it & I am sure you would agree with this if you look it from my point of view that

"Why should High School leaver like me join a body that is WIP (work in progress)??Why not join a body that is already well established from before or an institue that has already achieved it's objective?"

Now why I am calling ACCA as WIP should be clear to all.[)] I am looking forward for some productive comments as I believe this is a genuine question!!

Regards.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
As far as competing is concerned, i would advise you to see the question papers and syllabus of both ACCA and ICAEW. Many PpL out there allege that ACCA is not upto the mark in terms of content and examining, without actually knowing its exam standard. They argue that ACCA is EASY because of its examining standard. I have argued these beliefs in this forum, and you should check out [url="http//www.accountancy.com.pk/forum/topic.asp?topic_id=9712"]resolving rumours and myths about ACCA in Pak[/url]
It can't be denied that in Pakistan ACCA is recognised more now compared to, say, four years back. The choice of accountancy institutes depends solely on you. If you see yourself in Pakistan practising in some years time, then definitely go for ICAP. You are right in saying ACCA is still WIP here.
In Pakistan the perception has been built in such way that ACCAs(who undergo proper training) are considered lower to C.As in terms of everything(eg knowledge, technical and analyticall skills). A sensible, impartial and qualified person would strongly argue this view of many

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by kamranACA
 
Dears,

Some strange question has been raised by ACCAite. ACCAite, do you know how all the study material of any designation came/comes into development either it is ACCA or CIMA or ICAP or whatever and who writes such books?

Do you make any correlation of books with the HOLD on a given market? Do you make any correlation of market demand of professionals of a given body with the books they provide for study and preparation? Do you believe the key market positions are allocated by employers after inquiring the candidates "which books have you read"? Will you at any real life interview ask your prospective employer that I have read bala bala study material, so, I should be preferred or my emoluments should be greater? Loving analysis by you; and it speaks out.

Brother, there can be a lot of fronts where Pakistan as a nation would be lagging behind. Professionals of whatever field make out their careers by studying whatever material they acquire. People do study many books and resources for a single subject; and there was a time when a complete research was used to be instituted by students of professional bodies. They used to explore libraries and go through many ideas and materials. Certainly they were far better and much more learned although qualifying at that time was difficult.

Still, people tend to experience many things and give a look to various materials. This makes out "people" and not the "books" or "material" they study or go through. This is the essense.

Yes, I agree that CA students do use material of ACCA, CIMA (and may be others as well) along with some standardized well reputed authors that are always at the core of knowledge and development. I personally used a book of CIMA for one subject during my studies and I have no hesitation to say that it was such a nice work. Who is denying the good quality of any material, if it is there? Have you seen any post? The thread being discussed is not about study materials; so this matter was not so far discussed.

I at the same time again remind you that whatever books you have or you study; in majority of the cases (in Pak), your teachers are CAs (or CMAs) who mostly have not studied ACCA or whatever materials in their times. It tells you that a "person" is the ultimate and not the "materials".

One last thing, study materials don't have any correlation with market position and demand of professionals. Academics and professional growth although go side by side but the profession is the eventual element. I hope you can understand.

Regards,

KAMRAN.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Wow Kamrab saahab, you really can raise a big issue out of nothing. You should go back and read my post again, i mentioned its not ' THAT BIG OF A DEAL ' but where we are mentioning every little details of ACCA, why not this ? It was that simple Sir. Plus, let me assure you i am not nearly as dumb as you think i am. Who in world would ask what books did u study at the interview? It was an out of topic comment and i mentioned it.

Loving analysis from me and it speaks out? You really are a big man arguing with a person who s far younger and inexperienced than you.

.... "One last thing, study materials don't have any correlation with market position and demand of professionals. Academics and professional growth although go side by side but the profession is the eventual element. I hope you can understand."

I am rather offended by this comment of yours, i dont know maybe in your surroundings you may have to get down to this level to explain such things to individuals but thanks, i dont need any such suggestions or ' KNOWLEDGE ' .

Anyway, this has got rather bitter ... afterall with time ap apnay baray honay ka suboot detay ja rahay hain...

later.

I cant speak for everyone but from my experienced ' I, ACCAITE ' have yet to see a great corporate reporting teacher who is a C.A, i took assistance from an ACCA and i dont think there s any better out there. Most of the courses i studied by myself and passed in one go, ALHAMDULILLAH.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ACCAite
 I cant speak for everyone but from my experienced ' I, ACCAITE ' have yet to see a great corporate reporting teacher who is a C.A, i took assistance from an ACCA and i dont think there s any better out there. Most of the courses i studied by myself and passed in one go, ALHAMDULILLAH.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
There is a great teacher of corporate reporting, who is a member of ICAP. You would have loved studying from him
However, the only reason why ACAs and FCAs can teach ACCA students is because ACCA tests standards only, and does not have the complications of local company law, and their exams and syllabus are well-structured throughout the qualification

Many PpL here said ACCA MAY be recognised abroad in SOME countries. In the member countries of the EU, ACCAs having practising certificates are allowed to practise. See the link [url="http//en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_Chartered_Certified_Accountants?wasRedirected=true"]ACCA-wikipedia[/url].

ACCAite

Brother, no one is proving him "bara (big)" here; rather the thread has taken the direction where some explanation was necessary due to the nature and style of your query. The way you made a âbig pointâ was requiring the âanswerâ that you read. Iss main bara honay waali koi baat nahi. I have already told that it would be better if controversies are avoided.

You were quite worried about non-recognition of "your" ACCA books while these were "unjustifiably" used by others; To calm you down I simply acknowledged the worth that you were interested in.

Since the thing in focus is ACCA's local market capacity (and not of its books etc), so you were also told that no correlation exists of what you want to pin-point. Now, if you were already knowing the answer then it is amazing to see your objection out-rightly. Yet, you are a worthy member and have all the rights of posting whatever you like.

It's really good to know your achievements; and again your question about corporate reporting is such that requires similar answer but I know you will again feel it personalized. So, leave it. Dard has given you some answer with which you have fullest right to dissent.

I "wish" not to post further on this thread provided no need arises; I also know people normally like listening what sounds good to ears, so, I place on record that "ACCA is one of the premier qualifications and has all the future in Pakistan's economy, and is nearly to equate or outweigh all of its competitors. It has best curriculum, best books, best training opportunities and eventually every one who is an ACCA is the best professional and ends up in the premier jobs and key positions all over the country. It is most flexible and is also equal to or better than all other international designations. It is not a gateway or shortcut to other designations (as some people feel), rather, at its own is a core designation. It provides brighter future to its people without switching over for making any improvement.

I guess it may work and people may be feeling calmed down with a bit of satisfaction (although I know it is difficult). Let's see the future and hope for the best.

Dard,

Best of luck for your probable "practice" at U.K. but please make out a feasibility and investment appraisal before you put in the funds and efforts. You can also plan to establish such practice in many countries of the world where ACCA is recognized e.g. --------- chalo leave this controvercy.

By the way U.K. is normally taken to be a place (along with UAE) where ACCA does work.

I wish every one a bright, happier and contended future career.

Regards,

KAMRAN.

Dard

kamranACA

Osama Rules

shani420

ACCAite

Dard

Dard

rabia-k

kamranACA

Dard

ACCAite

ACCAite

Dard

Dard

kamranACA