Shariah-compliant Dressing in Audit Firms

[kamranACA]

Dears

Certain strange things are again repeated on this thread although these were well discussed lately and remained un-answered or the suggested answers were not sufficient.

I wonder if shalwar qamees is the only shariah compliant dress. I wonder if it has any roots in islamic history as such. I am still unable to understand interpretation of islamic or shariah compliant dressing the way it is being done. We know Holy Quran has enlightened us with all details on this issue, still, we are fighting on Bani Israel's cow.

I wonder why a nation who is bound to follow and borrow every thing from others is so concerned on this petty issue where islam does not put any specific cap except for a basic condition. One can see Soorah-e-Noor.

So buddies if you want to have a debate, please first go through the debate already done on this thread. This may open some new room for us to understand and think out of frame.

If Zakir Naik is not an Aalim and if he has no authority to speak on Islam then at the moment there is no aalim in the world and no one has an authority to speak specially most of our AVAILABLE-FOR-SALE Maulvies.

Regards,


Kamran.

[awaisaftab]

Yes, Zakir Nike is not Aalim. Do you know the definition of Aalim??? S.Abu Al Alla Maududi (R.A) made a huge contribution and he was a good Mufasire Quran his tafseer (Tafheem Ul Quran) is read and famous than any other tafseer. His taftseer is a miracle. Many big ulemas of his era were his followers and still many ulemas follow him. But the majority of ulema says that he was not Aalim because he had not attended any Madrsa.

If Sayed Abu Ala Maududi (R.A), who was designated with the title of Imammul Muslemeen by Shah Faisal Shaheed, is not considered as Aalim under definition then Zakir Nike kiss khet ki mooli ha ???

If today someone comes with extensive knowledge of accouts,audit and related fields on the basis of self studies,without passing the exams of any professional body of accountans and claims that he should be considered as professional accountant. No one will entertain him. Same is the case for the specialists of other field.

Islam is not Bazeechay Itfal. Dr. Zakir Nike has no right of Ijtihad. Has Zakir Nike khowledge level of Aime Arba or even the khowledge level of antient ulema of sub continent like Shah Wali ullah, Mujadid Alfe Sani and others??

My brother specific knowledge is required for every field of subject like engineering,medical, accounts and religion. Have you consulted any lay man for any legal or mediacal advice??? If not why you conuslt a lay man or Half Boilded Maulvi ,in your own words,for religious advice ???

Regards,

Awais Aftab

[Muhammad Amir]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">If Zakir Naik is not an Aalim and if he has no authority to speak on Islam then at the moment there is no aalim in the world and no one has an authority to speak specially most of our AVAILABLE-FOR-SALE Maulvies.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">


I no where challenged the authority of Dr. Zakir Naik. I am nothing to do that, he is <b>one of</b> the most renowned religious scholar of Islam. I just said that it is not inevitable for every Muslim to follow all of his words, just for example, Dr. Zakir Naik is against following any Imam (which means Gher-e-Muqqalid) but according to my views Taqleed is inevitable for us to follow Islam. I further said that I have my own views as well which do not need to be alligned with any Alim or scholar.

[Mujahid]

Chalo atleast mein aur awaisaftab kisi point pe aik hoye. Mere khayal mein bhi Dr. Zakir Naik cannot fall into the category of scholar since he does not know the difference between deen and mazhab.

[kamranACA]

Dears

Astaghfirullah! I must say. What a thoughtful issue has been raised.

Madrissa! Mashallah. Don't ask me to speak on this issue.

Can an MBBS doctor not become a religious scholar by studying religion, discussing with people of knowledge and doing all the required research. If so-called madrissa is a condition for being an aalim, then let me assure you, you will be bound to exclude a number of greatest names of history from the definition of aalims.

If one wishes to debate on it let me know, and I will give you concrete info on who can be called Aalim and what are pre-requisites not on the basis of my opinion, rather on the basis of other evidences.

One more thing, be clarified aalim denotes person of knwoledge and not aamal (person doing amal). Nobality is another thing and being aalim is another. We have a problem of mixing up both things.

I agree that Aalim of religion is simply like aalim of wordly knowledge. However, we are mixing the aalim with job orientation. It is most rebuttable presumption when ILAM comes into question. I can tell names of a number of men who had no designations (like mentioned in a post) but had done wonderful things that caused their name to be preserved as biggest aalims (wordly) for ever. Being aalim, there is no necessity of certifications since ILAM cannot be capped by doing this. I wonder if Newton was a designationholder of a field where he made never-ending achievements.

Certainly Zakir Naik is not applying for a job being religious scholar. At least the ones who say he is not an aalim are not even 1 percent of his ILAM. It is wonderful if they are.


Regards,


Kamran.

[m sonia]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Muhammad Amir</i>
<br />All of have your own thoughts and whatever you heared and saw in media you posted here...
I know hundreds of people who went to Afghanistan and do Jehad not only at the time of Russia but also with Taliban.These people are eye witness of their era and even compare that era with "Door-e-Farouqi"....
They established a depertment called "Ammr-e-Bil Ma'aroof Wa Nahi Unil Munkar"..... and did so much for the promoting Islam...even Arab Uleam-e-Kirams were also with them and lots of well known Arab Ulemas Support the cause of Talibans...infact lot of arab Ulemas wrote the letter to Ammer-ul-Mouminenn(Mullah Muhammad Umer Mujahid[May allah Bless him])by stating that they are fully supporting Talibans cause bespite the fact that Arab Ulemas are in some extent against the Sect of Talibans and this is enough to prove the nobel cause of Talibals...

not only you people i have seen lot of people who are aginst talibans but i request to all of you that criticism should not be for the sake of only criticism go and ask from people who has some stake in this nobel movement........
I saw some of the post of Mr KamranACA the most honerable and exteem member nost respectful he also criticised the fact that Mehmood Ghaznavi(Rehimullah) destroyed the Idol at the "Soomnath Mandir"...but dear KamranACA did you ever read what was the whole circumstance that lead him to destroy that Idol...and those golden words he said at that was "Mehmood kay liay Bout Faroosh say Bout Shikan Hona Behtar"....i love these words and these words are Enlightened way for all Muslims....

Also i read his comments that Talibans are extremly rigid and they started using sticks and shoes for their women and they also were aginst the education of women this is truth in some extent but Mr KamranACA do you know the facts why they were aginst the women education(only Dunawi Taleem) and do you know the facts that why they also use sticks for Women(for those who are not properly Vield).....Mr KamranACA see the world near you see the events near you now a days what is not happening in our country also so of the women wearing such clothes which already looks soo nude....lot of women showing their full inside structure by wearing appealing cloths..what all this going on.......A person(Sharief)can't go to market can't attend classes if he want to attend classes he should sit in the last of row of class why just because such nude dressing of opposite sex....and this is very natural that women always attract men and this universal divine rule...so the conclusion is that if women are properly dressed and they hide themselves and their bodies then their is nothing to increase lewdness in country...

the only crime of Taliban is that they were working for truly the sake of Islam for truly to propagate Islam and this crime lead all Kuffars to broke their Ammrat-e-Shariiah Islami.......
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">They were giving assylum to all terrorists of the world. One has to see the example of Indian Airlines Hijacking and then landing at Afghanistan and all the subsequent drama<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
this is wrong by the way what do you mean by All terrorists of the world...those whom you think are terrorists are actually not terrorists...also you quoted the incident of Indian air lines Hijacking do you know why that plane was hijacked because the most famous Mujahedeens like Moulana Masood Azhar was imprisoned at "TEHHAR JAIL" by indian army and to release them from Tehhar Jail some of the great minds done this....also for you information Teharr Jail is one of the most worse Jail in world how badley they injured those Mujahedeen's should also known to us and actually they were not doing Jehad in India but in Kashmir for the Independence of Musims...

May Allah give all of us sense to see the reallity and sense to hear both side views

Regards
Muhammad Amir
[/quote]

[m sonia]

i am new to this discussion and telling mr. amir that i myself very religious person additional to it i wear coat and scarf as well.BUT i was surprised to read your this post which shows that you are not cleared in thoughts and dont know much about islam as well i hope you wont behave aggressively and it will be in your interest because you want to be real muslim and have ffear of afterlife and accountability to God.
according to you
"....lot of women showing their full inside structure by wearing appealing cloths..what all this going on.......A person(Sharief)can't go to market can't attend classes if he want to attend classes he should sit in the last of row of class why just because such nude dressing of opposite sex....and this is very natural that women always attract men and this universal divine rule...so the conclusion is that if women are properly dressed and they hide themselves and their bodies then their is nothing to increase lewdness in country..."
okay brother!
I AM NOT ADVOCATING THOSE SHAMELESS WOMEN but want to add something in your islamic knowledge
Men are srictly asked not to stare ghair mahram women even if they mistakenly see some woman they
should keep thier eyes down and specially if people like you who see them so closely that they come to know all inside stucture which can not be observed mistakenly or in first sight ,should even keep their eyes down even if you have to interact with them in office or somewhere,secondly they are responsible for their acts or their mehrams and you will be accountable for your sins ,if they will not keep themselves in parda then this will not give you the plea for watching them with sinful intention ,men should control their NAFS even if some lady comes so.you can not force them to do parda and cannot punish them ,only you can do is to control your mind ,only when you will learn to resist such sinful feelings you will be a good muslim.those women do so to attract loose character people if you wont be attracted the will leave such acts.
ONE very strange point which you gave as argument is "and this is very natural that women always attract men and this universal divine rule...so the conclusion is that if women are properly dressed and they hide themselves and their bodies then their is nothing to increase lewdness in country."
you said it is natural that women attracts men,brother this is all state of mind which can be controlled this baseless argument wont save you on day of judgement that women didnt hide theirslves so we couldnt resist,and many people like you say women attracts if it is universal truth then why men dont get attracted to their mothers or sisters even if they dont cover themselve completely?if you would say they are mahram then i would say
for example a lady in your class room who attracted you and latter on you come to know she is your real sister,so its all state of mind we have same you take as vice versa ,i.e the lady you think is your sister you dont do parda in front of you because you are her brother,you come to know your parents adopted her and she is not your siter
SO the conclusion is women dont attart it is you controlless nafs ,you can not force them or punish them to do parda it is their will.
hope you wont take it aggresively and try to get some more detail knowldege from the translation of quran and will try to improve yours and others concepts.
i do parda willingly brother and know much about islam

[kamranACA]

Sonia

I don't mean to start any battle of words but can't resist saying that the nation needs girls like you. I appreciate your crystal clear ideas.

All muslim girls/ladies are respected and honoured (some aalim can tell but may be more than muslim men) merely for being girls/ladies. Islam has enhanced the regard and respect of your gender and in religion you are a sister to every other muslim.

I agree we can't improve anything unless we control and correct ourselves. Correction of Nafs starts from the Nafs and correction of a society starts from an individual and correction of individual starts from myself.

Keep it up.

Let me tell you Amir is a very nice and sincere muslim brother. He however has a problem of getting over excited and over emotional. We, over the time, learnt dealing with him.

Regards,



Kamran.

[Muhammad Amir]

Dear Sister Sonia,


We need sisters like you in our society because the system of Kufar is challenging us in multiple dimensions.


Actually, I have no disagreement with you. The above mentioned debate was some 2.5 years old, let me tell you, at that time I was over aggressive due to certain reasons and circumstances. If you analyse the situation of those days, it will not be difficult for you to conclude the things in right perspective. I know and I accept that I was wrong on certain issues and later I re-christen some of my thoughts and ideologies. Sometimes, to counter a particular ideology one adopts an extreme counter ideology but this is temporary, this situation can be changed through dialogue and perhaps, through proving things to the contrary.


One more thing which I need to clarify here, although I am not giving justifications, nor I need to give but I need to say that everyone has a right to change his position anytime and anywhere he thinks appropriate, one can leave position 1 and adopts position 2 if he thinks he was wrong at first place, he has all legal and moral rights to do so. Quaid-e-Azam was the member of Congress party when he began his politics but later he formed Muslim League and left Congress for certain reasons but we will not call him a "congressi" merely based on his first affiliation but he was the true patriot and Muslim reformer because he repent and changed his position according to the circumstances. Similarly, Mr. Iftikhar Chauhadry was the one who took oath from Mr. General Pervez Musharraf when he took the control of the country but later the same Mr. Iftikhar Chaudhry was standing eye ball to eye ball against musharraf. He changed his position, everyone appreciated and majority of the Pakistanis joined his charade to nail the coffin of Musharraf. The point is, we have differnet situations and circumstances which made us aggressive or whatever you call.


I have no personal animosity with any person or group of people, my fight is against evil nexus of our time which is Hindu India, Yahoodi Israel and America. I have my full dedications to those who are fighting against this evil nexus and I think majority, almost all people will agree with me on this.


My thought is, crush your enemies with full power and potiential. Don't let them concoct conspiracies against you. Your enemy is very cunning.


Thanks & Regards,

[awaisaftab]

Everyone know that u(Zakir naik) allow "NECK TIE". but i think that ur or urs research about neck tie is "Incomplete" I think neck tie is still "makrooh" in our shariah. (as our ulma said but u rejected them). it has been proved by medical science that neck tie causes several Eye diseases plz read this (from wikipedia encyclopedia)
Latest research
Health issues
Necktie opponents cite risks of wearing a necktie as argument for discontinuing it. Their cited risks are entanglement, infection, and vascular constriction. Entanglement when working with machinery or dangerous, possibly violent jobs such as policemen and prison guards, and certain medical fields. [2] The answer is to avoid wearing neckties, or to wear pre-knotted neckties that easily detach from the wearer when grabbed; vascular constriction occurs with over-tight collars. Studies have shown increased intraocular pressure in such cases, which can aggravate the condition of people with weakened retinas.[3] There may be additional risks for people with glaucoma Sensible precautions can mitigate the risk. Paramedics performing life support remove an injured man's necktie as a first step to ensure it does not block his airway. Neckties might also be a health risk for persons other than the wearer. They are believed to be major vectors in disease transmission in hospitals. Notwithstanding such fears, doctors and dentists wear neckties for a professional image. Hospitals take seriously the cross-infection of patients by doctors wearing infected neckties, [4] because neckties are less frequently cleaned than most other clothes. On 17 September 2007, British hospitals published rules banning neckties.[5] Doctors routinely lean across patients and ties frequently come into contact with patients — although this can be countered somewhat by a tie bar. As a result, bow ties have traditionally been popular with doctors. Medical professionals can mitigate this problem by changing into a newly washed tie each day.
One possible benefit of wearing a tie might be that a wearer has a built-in item to serve as a tourniquet, should the wearer encounter someone at risk for losing a limb. Wearers also need to be careful when cooking to avoid the tie coming into contact with any flames
U.K. Hospitals Issue Doctors' Dress Code

By RAPHAEL G. SATTER
The Associated Press
Monday, September 17, 2007; 1130 PM
LONDON -- British hospitals are banning neckties.........
....
"Ties are rarely laundered but worn daily," the Department of Health said in a statement. "They perform no beneficial function in patient care and have been shown to be colonized by pathogens."
. ..........A 2004 study of doctors' neckties at a New York hospital found nearly half of them carried at least one species of infectious microbe. In 2006, the British Medical Association urged doctors to go without the accessories, calling them "functionless clothing items."

plz stop the "EXPERIMENTS" on islam and shariah

[kamranACA]

Dears

A similar debate was evidenced when "Bani-Israel" was asked to sacrifice a cow. This I am referring to the dressing issue being discussed. By the way microbiological elements found in cow's meat can be well debated though it is not the issue in hand.

We use cars, motor bikes, planes, ships, electronic and electric equipments, (electricity itself), mobiles, watches, cellular phones, so forth and so on. Each of them can be discussed as how danegrous and fatal for human's lives. Further, these were not used by Prophet Peace Be Upon Him, so these can also be debated for being shariah compliant or not. Can we not discuss? I have seen certain people debating on some of these things.

So, the issue is very simple and quite understandable which is lingered on for no reason.

As far as Zakir Naik is concerned, I believe and have reasons to believe that he is an Aalim. Aalim means the person having knowledge. It no where means the person having designations or certifications. Aalim can be Aalim without being a Wali-Allah or a very noble figure. I don't know any Quranic Verse stipulating any Madrissa certification for being an Aalim. I again mention that if we will make it a condition we will have to exclude biggest names of the history from the definition of an Aalim.

Since the Aalims are not the Prophets (Naoozbillah) and are not as such directly guided by Allah, therefore, therefore, they are common human beings, and they can commit mistakes in judging and concluding various things. The Aalim who claims to be free of any human or judgmental error is not followable at all. However, debating and proving a point with logical material and islamic references is another thing.

If some one has reservations with any aalim, it is his right, and he may or may not accept any body as aalim. Let me again say that an Aalim is not a prophet (Naoozbillah) so rejecting his ideas are not a sin at all. I personally don't accept a larger number of so-called Ulema as Aalims. This carries no crime or offense, I agree.

Necktie is issue of no significance at all. The one who feels problem with it should not use it and the one who is comfortable can use it. The issues raised with neckties and referred on wikipedia could be referred about many other things and basically depend upon one's own habits. I always get my neckties cleaned along with my suits. I wonder if these can be used in longer run without cleaning. So there is no issue of cleaning at all. Other anticipated problems can be alleged to other dressing elements as well. Since it will not be fruitful, I will not go in detail. Readers can conclude which other dress articles can create similar problems.

Regards,



KAMRAN.

[kamranACA]

By the way what constitutes "EXPERIMENTING" with Islam or Shariah?

I agree that dressing is not a very significant issue to be discussed and lingering on with this matter is like discussing the specifications of cow by Bani Israel. Still if it becomes important to discuss certain things to help the majority to avoid confusion created, this has to be done and is being done. I agree that enough has so far been explained.

Notwithstanding this, if discussing some valid point (to make some one understand even a tiny issue) is called "EXPERIMENTING" then I must say that Holy Quran at number of places asks to search for the facts and ponder on the matters to uncover the realities.

Quran says that "Aqal waalon kay liyay iss main nishaniyan hain". So, Quran asks to carry on the thought provoking process. If "thought", "research", "discussion" and "pondering on" was not required then can any body tell me the meaning of such verses. If this is the EXPERIMENTING then as per Holy Quarn it is required to be done.

So there is no "EXPERIMENTING" at all. I will be pleased to know if some body can prove any experimenting. I am here to clarify to the contrary.

If experimenting is about Zakar Naik, then again it is quite weird. In his comparison we know nothing. How can we allege him for such experimenting? This is the dilemma that we tend to stop every one who is doing some good work.

We know people use such words occusionally which should not be appreciated.

Regards,



KAMRAN.