05-07-2005, 04:09 PM
Dear Asif,
I am sorry for the slightly delayed reply. Below are answers to your all your queries
1. Yes, this is true but there is a requirement that you must have passed ACCA papers that are of the UK variant, i.e. which require UK law and taxation and NOT international ACCA variants.
Below is a link to the ICAEW exemptions for ACCAs, please read it
http//www.icaew.co.uk/professionalstage/index.cfm?AUB=TB2I_67853,MNXI_67853
(if the above link doesn't work, then simply copy and paste it on to the address bar of your Internet browser)
2. In my training days there was a lot of competition for obtaining training contracts. Big 4 only recruit UK graduates, unless you can convince them that your ACCA is good enough, so Big 4 contracts are difficult to obtain, unless you get your ACCA training though a Big 4 employer in Pakistan such as A.F.Ferguson or Taseer Hadi and then ask them to transfer you to UK.
If you are a qualified ACCA, then you may be very attractive to employers, even as an ICAEW trainee. Some employers will be impressed with your qualifications, whereas others would think you are over qualified, especially for the role of an ICAEW trainee. So this depends on the employer. The biggest hurdle is going to be the work permit. Some employers do not want to go through this headache, so I suggest you write to these employers and ask them for their advice. ICAEW also has a career advice section. The ICAEW website is www.icaew.co.uk. This website has a list of employers who offer training contracts.
Below is a link to the training vacancies section (you will need to register, which is a simple formality)
http//www.icaew.co.uk/tv/
Policies regarding offering training contracts depend upon the employer. I have discussed these above.
Procedures - well there are none. If they offer you a training contract, then that is it. Just sign it and comply with the firm's employment policies.
I MUST ADVICE YOU ON SOMETHING AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT
If you first intend to just pass the ACCA exams and after that complete the ACCA work experience requirements and you also wish to have the ICAEW qualification, then it is best to start an ICAEW training contract. That way your ICAEW training contract work experience will count towards both ICAEW work experience and ACCA work experience at the same time.
If you complete your ACCA work experience in Pakistan (even with a reputable firm like A.F.Ferguson) and then sign an ICAEW training contract in England, then your Pakistani work experience will not be counted towards ICAEW work experience requirement. That way you will have to undertake double work experience.
ICAEW is very strict in its training contract requirements. Only firms that are authorised to train students can sign such contracts, but the ones listed on the ICAEW website are those that can train students.
3. I disagree with Fahad Aziz's comments. There is no doubt that in England (and other parts of the world) ICAEW is the preferred qualification over ACCA, but not by that much. Rather than give a ratio of 91, I would give a ratio of 21. Some firms in fact prefer ACCAs. ACCAs are also quality accountants, so I disagree with Fahad Aziz. Just because the ICAEW is slightly more acceptable than ACCA does not make ACCA lacking in quality.
ACCA is growing much faster than ICAEW in terms of student numbers, so soon we may have an excess supply of ACCAs. That could change things further in favour of the ICAEW qualification.
4. As far as Pakistan is concerned, ICAP will always be the superior qualification as it is more appropriate to the needs of Pakistani CA firms and employers. This is because ICAP deals with Pakistani law, tax and audit. I don't see ACCA taking over. They can't, otherwise ICAP would become extinct. Having said this, ACCAs will always be in at least some demand in Pakistan, especially for roles in industry and commerce where Pakistani law and tax are of little significance.
If you really want to supplement your ACCA and stay in Pakistan and have an edge over other candidates and still have an ICAEW qualification then I suggest you choose either the ICAEW's International Financial Reporting Standards qualification or the ICAEW's corporate finance qualification. Both are new qualifications and are likely to become very popular. Both will give you ICAEW certificates (but not membership) which should be attractive to Pakistani (and overseas) employers. The greatest advantage about these qualifications is that you can stay in Pakistan and study. You do not need UK work experience for these.
The corporate finance qualification is going to be an excellent qualification and if you intend to join a multi national bank, then it will enhance your CV greatly.
If you are an ACCA with the CF qualification, then you can enjoy a great lifestyle in Pakistan or in the Middle East.
To read about these qualifications (and entry requirements) please visit
http//www.icaew.co.uk/corpfinfac/index.cfm?AUB=TB2I_80317
and
http//www.icaew.co.uk/index.cfm?AUB=TB2I_77554
I suggest you enquire with ICAEW as to whether you can study for these qualifications in Pakistan, and when and where you can take the exams. Maybe they can make special arrangements for you.
Finally, you ask me what I am doing in Pakistan after having two world class qualifications, ACA and CPA.
I forgot to add that I am also a full British Citizen and I can live and work and do business in not only in England but under European Union rules in any of the 25 member countries of Europe, so I must be a real idiot to live here in Pakistan. The answer is I am a total idiot.
I came back to Pakistan in 2003 because I wanted to spend some time with my parents. However since then, my wife and kids have loved living in Pakistan and no one wants to go back. My wife has her parents and relatives here, and my children are spoilt here with all the luxuries and servants which we do not get in England. No one in my family wants to go back. Me, well...for a family bread winner, Pakistan is useless. I have tried businesses here and made losses. This country is not for honest people who have lived in honest countries like UK and Canada. Most businesses in Pakistan are conducted fraudulently in one way or another. My father and I imported yarn (raw materials for clothing). We paid taxes and duties but found that the same item was being easily smuggled into Pakistan. If one doesn't cheat in Pakistan, then he cannot succeed. Cheating, lies, deceit, hypocrisy is part of everyday life in Pakistan. I am afraid I am not one of those people who approves of such an attitude, and I am not going to make any more sacrifices for my family, SO I HAVE DECIDED to move back to England in the next two weeks. I will run a CA practice in England and back it up with other businesses.
I trust the above answers all your queries.
Take care.
Kamran
I am sorry for the slightly delayed reply. Below are answers to your all your queries
1. Yes, this is true but there is a requirement that you must have passed ACCA papers that are of the UK variant, i.e. which require UK law and taxation and NOT international ACCA variants.
Below is a link to the ICAEW exemptions for ACCAs, please read it
http//www.icaew.co.uk/professionalstage/index.cfm?AUB=TB2I_67853,MNXI_67853
(if the above link doesn't work, then simply copy and paste it on to the address bar of your Internet browser)
2. In my training days there was a lot of competition for obtaining training contracts. Big 4 only recruit UK graduates, unless you can convince them that your ACCA is good enough, so Big 4 contracts are difficult to obtain, unless you get your ACCA training though a Big 4 employer in Pakistan such as A.F.Ferguson or Taseer Hadi and then ask them to transfer you to UK.
If you are a qualified ACCA, then you may be very attractive to employers, even as an ICAEW trainee. Some employers will be impressed with your qualifications, whereas others would think you are over qualified, especially for the role of an ICAEW trainee. So this depends on the employer. The biggest hurdle is going to be the work permit. Some employers do not want to go through this headache, so I suggest you write to these employers and ask them for their advice. ICAEW also has a career advice section. The ICAEW website is www.icaew.co.uk. This website has a list of employers who offer training contracts.
Below is a link to the training vacancies section (you will need to register, which is a simple formality)
http//www.icaew.co.uk/tv/
Policies regarding offering training contracts depend upon the employer. I have discussed these above.
Procedures - well there are none. If they offer you a training contract, then that is it. Just sign it and comply with the firm's employment policies.
I MUST ADVICE YOU ON SOMETHING AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT
If you first intend to just pass the ACCA exams and after that complete the ACCA work experience requirements and you also wish to have the ICAEW qualification, then it is best to start an ICAEW training contract. That way your ICAEW training contract work experience will count towards both ICAEW work experience and ACCA work experience at the same time.
If you complete your ACCA work experience in Pakistan (even with a reputable firm like A.F.Ferguson) and then sign an ICAEW training contract in England, then your Pakistani work experience will not be counted towards ICAEW work experience requirement. That way you will have to undertake double work experience.
ICAEW is very strict in its training contract requirements. Only firms that are authorised to train students can sign such contracts, but the ones listed on the ICAEW website are those that can train students.
3. I disagree with Fahad Aziz's comments. There is no doubt that in England (and other parts of the world) ICAEW is the preferred qualification over ACCA, but not by that much. Rather than give a ratio of 91, I would give a ratio of 21. Some firms in fact prefer ACCAs. ACCAs are also quality accountants, so I disagree with Fahad Aziz. Just because the ICAEW is slightly more acceptable than ACCA does not make ACCA lacking in quality.
ACCA is growing much faster than ICAEW in terms of student numbers, so soon we may have an excess supply of ACCAs. That could change things further in favour of the ICAEW qualification.
4. As far as Pakistan is concerned, ICAP will always be the superior qualification as it is more appropriate to the needs of Pakistani CA firms and employers. This is because ICAP deals with Pakistani law, tax and audit. I don't see ACCA taking over. They can't, otherwise ICAP would become extinct. Having said this, ACCAs will always be in at least some demand in Pakistan, especially for roles in industry and commerce where Pakistani law and tax are of little significance.
If you really want to supplement your ACCA and stay in Pakistan and have an edge over other candidates and still have an ICAEW qualification then I suggest you choose either the ICAEW's International Financial Reporting Standards qualification or the ICAEW's corporate finance qualification. Both are new qualifications and are likely to become very popular. Both will give you ICAEW certificates (but not membership) which should be attractive to Pakistani (and overseas) employers. The greatest advantage about these qualifications is that you can stay in Pakistan and study. You do not need UK work experience for these.
The corporate finance qualification is going to be an excellent qualification and if you intend to join a multi national bank, then it will enhance your CV greatly.
If you are an ACCA with the CF qualification, then you can enjoy a great lifestyle in Pakistan or in the Middle East.
To read about these qualifications (and entry requirements) please visit
http//www.icaew.co.uk/corpfinfac/index.cfm?AUB=TB2I_80317
and
http//www.icaew.co.uk/index.cfm?AUB=TB2I_77554
I suggest you enquire with ICAEW as to whether you can study for these qualifications in Pakistan, and when and where you can take the exams. Maybe they can make special arrangements for you.
Finally, you ask me what I am doing in Pakistan after having two world class qualifications, ACA and CPA.
I forgot to add that I am also a full British Citizen and I can live and work and do business in not only in England but under European Union rules in any of the 25 member countries of Europe, so I must be a real idiot to live here in Pakistan. The answer is I am a total idiot.
I came back to Pakistan in 2003 because I wanted to spend some time with my parents. However since then, my wife and kids have loved living in Pakistan and no one wants to go back. My wife has her parents and relatives here, and my children are spoilt here with all the luxuries and servants which we do not get in England. No one in my family wants to go back. Me, well...for a family bread winner, Pakistan is useless. I have tried businesses here and made losses. This country is not for honest people who have lived in honest countries like UK and Canada. Most businesses in Pakistan are conducted fraudulently in one way or another. My father and I imported yarn (raw materials for clothing). We paid taxes and duties but found that the same item was being easily smuggled into Pakistan. If one doesn't cheat in Pakistan, then he cannot succeed. Cheating, lies, deceit, hypocrisy is part of everyday life in Pakistan. I am afraid I am not one of those people who approves of such an attitude, and I am not going to make any more sacrifices for my family, SO I HAVE DECIDED to move back to England in the next two weeks. I will run a CA practice in England and back it up with other businesses.
I trust the above answers all your queries.
Take care.
Kamran
