Accountancy Forum

Can you get serious or post any mature query on this thread? If 50% is the passing criteria then certainly it is being followed. I being an ex-student of ICAP had and has no issue with it; and I believe, without any doubt, that whoever gets 50% or more, is declared successful. Now, what remains the turnout is another thing. Do you know the turnout of CPA, CFA, ICAA, CICA, and other quality exams in the world and in pakistan e.g. C.S.S?

Survival is for the fittest; not for all the competitors. Everyone who meets the basic qualification should be admitted to give it a try, and this is what being done in every field worldover. So, suggestion again is, that please open your eyes and adopt a habit of debating on the things if you carry some know-how about it. A simple question for you, can you please tell me the turnout percentage of even Matric exam in Pakistan where passing marks are merely 33%? Can you? Try to find it, and may you find the answer to your question regarding one of the prime qualifications.

As far as the link posted by you, be informed that I am not, and have never been, posting on the forum you have pointed out. This is a categorical statement; so it should be enough to makeup a satisfactory answer. That KamranACA on the forum under discussion is somebody else. At the same time I also place on record that I agree to most of the content of his post (whose link you have given) EXCEPT that I don't rate ACCAs as clerks.

One thing to add; this username (KamranACA), is used by me ONLY on this forum; so debate with me on the posts sent under this user-name, only on www.accountancy.com.pk. and don't post irrelevant stuff to make your point.

Regards,

The answer to following of your totally uninformed, illiterate, laughable, and pathetic objection remained unanswered. You wrote

............"you have mentioned the big firms name check the profile their partners mostly will be ICAEW member, ICAP has just stamped on it by giving membership for practising purpose... I dont know why you feel shame by using the local name of yours firm like taseer hadi khalid, yousaf adil saleem, sidat hyder etc. it also show the your complex".......

I have a number of times struck my head about your habit of writing without information and knowledge, and you keep on repeating your same act.

First of all be informed that most of the partners in all firms at Pakistan are Pakistani CAs. Specially checkout the majority within the age bracket of 30+ to 50 and you would find absolute majority of ICAP's qualified people instead of ICEAW's. Don't quote me examples of the ones who established the firms before 1961 or became the partners before the establishment of ICAP. Further, no ICEAW member can directly start practice in Pakistan by getting ICAP's membership. So come out of dreams. Under the recognition arrangements, they can get ICAP's membership on the basis of ICEAW but cannot get into the public practice. For doing so, they have to qualify certain papers to get hold of local requirements.

Your other query-cum-objection is also extremely childish and illiterate; and depict that you don't at all know about the accountancy and audit profession.

All the firms in Pakistan have their local names, but by virtue of their membership rights of the International Firms and Networks, are "LEGALLY" allowed to use the brand names. And for doing so, there are certain ethical guidelines which every firm observes. Now, if you are not aware of what is what then why you are posting irrelevant and non-ethical things on the forum just to dump your frustration?

What I wrote in my post is, that such "International Firms and Networks" (whose names I mentioned) found the practices of Pakistan based firms/people equivalent in quality to their international practices, so "they" recognized our people's quality of work and ethical practices and added our people to "their" networks on equivalent membership basis. This has always been a recognition of Pakistani people and ICAP's members.

Now tell me, if I was discussing the "outsiders" i.e. "International Firms and Networks" etc, how could I have used Pakistani names for them???? Does your mind work??? If you are jealous, which jealousy does not permit you to think and differentiate the things, then live on the red coals of jealousy and controversy BUT you would find nothing.

A sincere suggestion for you is to learn first and build your career on the basis of your ability instead of criticizing those who somehow are better than you. Otherwise the time is near when people will start laughing on you, if you would not change your habit of saying the things without their basic knowledge and commenting EVEN without understanding what is being discussed.

Regards,

@KamranACA

As far as your status, you are just the ICAP employee, its your post in pakistan acca forum or it may be any one else, it surely your office collegue. ( I mean ICAP marketing department )

now let to members of this forum to decide, because I have tried to mentioned the ICAP hypocritic policies how they are deceiving to pakistani students and your are defending on this forum its cheap policies.

and lastly ICAP ship is going to sink. You and your institute can not fool the students any more and it is nightmare for you and your institute by seeing the growth of ACCA in Pakistan.

Best advice for you, start searching a new job, because sooner or later ICAP will kick out you due to shortage of fund... No more comments,

I think ICAP takes decisions bona-fide in the interest of its members, students or anyone associated with it in any form. Many disasters came to Pakistan but I witnessed ICAP prevailing during the hard-hitting times. All praise goes to ICAP. Even now every member is blissful and proud to be ICAP's member. I also deem that whoever deserves to pass CA exams definitely passes the exam.

Now about ACCA Pakistan's story, why would ACCA take its decisions bona-fide in the interest of Pakistanis? ACCA has always been poor at negotiation of MRA. In Australia, ACCA had presence before CIMA emerged there. ACCA was at better position to negotiate MRA. But always ACCA want to create competition with local bodies rather then working with those local bodies. Now CIMA is well recognized in Australia ,and ACCA is partially recognized. Don't know how ACCA thinks of such dream and make its members believe that such dream will come true?

I would rather blame ACCA then ICAP. Why would ICAP offer more exemptions to ACCA? Why would anyone expect its competitor/rival to help him? It’s again ACCA's fault. ICAP has better partner to work with. I have been hearing for 5 years that ICAP will fall soon. Those believing or saying such things are living in a fool paradise.

For Countries like Australia and New Zealand more members mean more success because they have deficit of such Skills so such countries give opportunities to foreigners to immigrate and contribute in area of shortage. Increasing number of ACCA's in Pakistan will have dreadful outcome for ACCA's here. That would categorically cause certification to become diluted with many chartered certified holders and most certainly it would answer in shrinking the economical value of credentials in future.

// Pardon me for off topic discussion.

And i left the argument to save this thread.

@shaidacca

You will find ICAPians from both worlds. Those who have qualified and praise the body and a huge number of semi-qualified saying all the bad things about it. I am afraid you are arguing with the wrong person. He will always be loyal to ICAP just like me or you are to ACCA. Find someone who could not qualify and he would agree to everything you said. Same goes for ACCA as well.

@kamranACA
Somtimes your posts give a feel of an aspiring CA student rather than a qualified CA professional.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by lost</i>

Now about ACCA Pakistan's story, why would ACCA take its decisions bona-fide in the interest of Pakistanis? ACCA has always been poor at negotiation of MRA. In Australia, ACCA had presence before CIMA emerged there. ACCA was at better position to negotiate MRA. But always ACCA want to create competition with local bodies rather then working with those local bodies. Now CIMA is well recognized in Australia ,and ACCA is partially recognized. Don't know how ACCA thinks of such dream and make its members believe that such dream will come true?

// Pardon me for off topic discussion.


<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hold your horses my friend. As an ACCA member i am all set to give the remaining 3/4 CIMA exams. Based on CIMA, i could consider Aus CPA. ICAEW will come my way in next 5 years anyhow. I might as well move to Canada and see what CGA has to offer. And all of this can happen because no body is gona raise barriers for me.

I don't think ACCA wants to compete with any local body. It has already beaten the local body of the country its based in. Read ACCAs press releases and magazines to get a true outlook of the worlds largest accountancy body.

I agree that in the past 2 years ACCA's MRA/MOU has not shown great progress. However, the exemption remains. Of course, ICAP exemptions is a different case altogether. Frankly 90% of all world ACCAs don't care much about ICAP. I wonder if they even know what ICAP is.


99% of the qualifications gives more or less same exemptions to other professionals including ICAP. For e.g. in IIA's CIA 4th part is exempt for everyone no matter what or where.

I have already mentioned before that ICAP enjoys supremacy in Pakistan and <b>rightly so</b>. Every local body enjoys supremacy in its jurisdiction. As soon as competition goes international fair play comes into play. ACCAs are lions in UK signing stautory audit reports. Just like ICAPians are in Pak.

@Shahid ACCA

Critics, and not the birds of your feather, will definitely see that whenever you are given a logical reply to your defamatory and insane questions, you change the topic and start yelling in a new direction. This is because you know nothing about the profession in Pakistan as well as Internationally and you post without knowing the things about the subject.

Advice (not a sugesstion) for you once again is to learn first and build your career on the basis of your ability and intellect instead of yelling about others with whom, logically, you have nothing to do, provided you are not crying for a missed opportunity.

Dxb.Raf

The difference between mature fellows and the struggling failures is that, when you tell something, the struggling failures do not want to understand what has been told to them with logics, which should appeal to an educated and contended mind.

Since in a forum there are a number of readers who usually visit the threads but don't make much effort to understand the capacity of the writers, the idiotic posts of the failures may affect their understanding of a given issue. Therefore, to clear the mess created by the frustrated minds, there is always a need to reply each and everything, and for doing so, sometimes the respondent has to step down from his level for the benefits of the readers and not simply for his own ego. I hope you would understand.

Lost

I agree to most of the contents of your post.

Yes, ACCA is one of the well recognized bodies at UK and we should not argue for the purpose of arguments. Our point of discussion is focused on Pakistani market specifically. However, I definitely am of the view that time will prove that the prime UK qualification is of ICEAW's. The abundance of anything can create loads of cash inflows and can for a phase affect the people's view point BUT in the longer run quality has to prevail. No offense, it's my personal opinion and not to affect others thought.

Regards,

@shahidacca,

yaar bhai i have read your comments again and the fact is that you really started out of no where against ICAP and everything. Just make a list of countries where accountancy profession is regularized. Like USA, Aus, Canada Europe and everywhere. In every jurisdiction where accountancy is regularized, the local body always had the edge. Of course other outside qualification make their mark but the local body remains dominant.

Just tell me why are you not upset about ACCAs recognition in Canada or USA or Aus? You wont be given any more respect there either until you gain the local qualification. Yes you may still get jobs but the priority of the local market would remain. Why so worried about Pakistan? Just because you belong here. Well as i have been telling everyone. If you want to be king in Pak then go for the National qualification.

If you don't want discrimination then, just go to the UK. At least there you are CHARTERED and even then you don't make a good career, you will have more excuses.

This is my sincere suggestion to every foreign qualification student here. Do it on your own. If you want local support go for local qualification. Local body is not obliged to support us. The local chapter of your body is. ACCA pak chapter is doing well. I do receive job postings in my mail regularly. We all should be happy that foreign qualifications are also making its mark in Pakistan instead of complaining that they are not considered equal to the local qualification. I also believe that no foreign qualification will ever gain footing equal to ICAP in Pakistan. Because for that to happen the body would need to be chartered by the government for public accounting and statutory audit. This is simply not happening.

You have the right to criticize policies of any body. I am also critical of ICAP exams and the pressure it exerts on the BIG4 trainee placements to which i have been a first hand witness. May be we all are. ACCAs still get trained in BIG4s don't they. May be less than ICAP. Whining wont take us anywhere my friend.

Here is the ICAP president directly talking about the same issues that have been discussed on every Pakistan accountancy forum. You have all the right to agree or disagree.

http//tribune.com.pk/story/251827/we-dont-support-an-artificial-shortage-of-accountants-icap-president/

@KamranACA

ICAEW might never be the prime qualification of UK. ACCAs are chartered to sign audit reports and practice public accounting in the UK. THE DIFFERENCE is simply not there. They are like 2 national accountancy bodies of UK now. I will be correct in saying that ACCA is the local accountancy qualification of UK along with ICAEW. ACCA members ARE the Chartered Accountant of UK.

There are several other jurisdictions where more than one accountancy body operates side by side. I am not sure if Canada is another such country with CGA and CICA. Also there are other local bodies that offer examinations to international students. US CPA is offering exams in Dubai now. ACCA is a mix of local and international body. Though it prefers the international part more. We could say US CPA is also an international as well as local qualification. That is more because of the status of the USA though.


It is annoying to see my Pakistani ACCA peers whining. Can't do much about it. Hope everyone understand the facts and realities. I would still recommend you to stay at your level. I am sure you worked hard to be where you are today.

Thanks almighty Lord, there is some sanity witnessed.

Your analysis and arguments are quite agreeable.

As far as ICEAW at UK is concerned, I have already told that it is my personal opinion in which I don't find any harm to share with the fellows. I also have due regard for your view point, though I tend to disagree with it. Only time is the element that can prove something for us.

However, you have quoted a nice example of CGA and CICA in Canada {though it does not fit with the ACCA's instance in totality, specially when ACCA over-whelmingly calls it primarily as a global qualification instead of a national designation}. I also guess CPA and/or CMA are also well regarded in Canadian territories. Yet, to my understanding a difference is witnessed whenever we see them in comparison to CICA. You cannot drill down the difference on the basis of arguments which we usually find from CPAs, CGAs or CMAs etc. Reasons, I know, are already well understood by you.

Anyway, thanks for the post.


Regards

Kamran ACA ,

Please tell me about the application and utilzation of IFRS'S in US , Canada and other countries where it was not previously adopted !
I heard from my teachers, it is under consideration that US , Canada and other countries may adopt IFRS , IFRIC system in the near future which will further enhance the level of Pakistani CA's . So can you guide me through that if you have any information ?

Moreover, Shahid's comments against CA's are way too redundant . And I commend Kamran's support for ICAP and his strong answers to shahid to keep the momentum going on, although there was none , as shahid's childish and unnecessary ideas about ICAP are not gonna effect anyone but himslef as he shall concentrate more on focusing on his studies/work and better leave opposing others unncessarily .

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by FutureCA</i>
<br />Kamran ACA ,

Please tell me about the application and utilzation of IFRS'S in US , Canada and other countries where it was not previously adopted !
I heard from my teachers, it is under consideration that US , Canada and other countries may adopt IFRS , IFRIC system in the near future which will further enhance the level of Pakistani CA's . So can you guide me through that if you have any information ?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

These countries have been considering IFRS since a very long time. It might take a few more years before they go the IFRS way. They are currently in the phase of preparing for the transformation. Who knows this entire thing is just a myth and rumor all together.

Their CPA body would make sure that there market remains steady and the best positions are covered by the local CPAs who know very well about the transformation.

Regarding Pakistani CAs demand going up in USA after the transformation, let me tell you their is no demand in the first place. For any other qualification not just Pakistan's CA. They have a regularized market where a CPA from a certain state is not even recgonized to practice in another state. Also remember that there are several other bodies around the world based on IFRS. Your argument would mean that all these bodies would become more effective in USA. Specially the international bodies. Moreover, Pakistan's image in USA as a country would further go against the idea.

Double post.

I know only one thing, if you have to paste the audit stamp in Pakistan on the financial statements, you have to be a member of ICAP, This is a very hard reality

ACCAs......... always crying!

I haven't seen, at all, any ICAP member or student arguing with any acca that we are the best but (poor) acca member n students do that everytime they get a chance... pity!!!

ICAP plays fairly with all, whether they are members, students (like me) or any other (ACCA)..

Regards!